the joke’s on Jim, I can’t even say Socinian!

Copia desde la Crucifixion dibujada hacia 1540...
Copia desde la Crucifixion dibujada hacia 1540 por Miguel Angel Buonarroti para Vittoria Colonna. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Yesterday, I posted my displeasure at the line from In Christ Alone, a modern day hymn.

“Till on that cross as Jesus died,
The wrath of God was satisfied”

I do not hold to the atonement theory known as Penal Substitutionary. I find it abhorrent and not the most representative of the biblical images of atonement. Readers know my stance on Romans and the oft-quoted passage used to support the ‘wrath of God poured out on all’ theology.

Anyway, Jim posted

Joel Watts- Socinian | Zwinglius Redivivus.

Personally, I don’t believe in ultimate free will, either for God or his Creation. Don’t get me wrong, I think there is freedom and liberty, but the notion of free will is rather blatantly false. Free will and sovereignty are highly nuanced, so I may not mean what you think I mean.

I affirm Christus Victor as my preferred method of examining the death of Jesus. It incorporates the OT with YHWH victor, ANE combat myth, and henotheism. Was the death of Christ a sort of substitution? Sure. He gave his life so that others may live, but he did so in the context of  Christ victorious over death, the powers, and the like.

PSA is not the most important aspect of the atonement images, but it is an aspect. CV is the most important because it recognizes the eternality of the sovereignty of God, for one, and the ontological existence of the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Further, it erases the notion that God is a wrathful, vengeful deity first and foremost  and only abated by requiring his son to suffer and die to appease his honor. God is not such a one like us, after all.

I do not believe in the impassable God. Rather, I do believe God is angered and grows indignant, but likewise, these are not his defining characteristics. The Creeds do not begin with ‘I believe in God… the vengeful.’ Rather, we believe in God, the Creator. We will in the Son who suffered under Pilate, not under God.

Anyway, it is a fun conversation.

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3 Replies to “the joke’s on Jim, I can’t even say Socinian!”

  1. Hymns are strange animals. Every time I hear “washed in the blood of Christ”, I think the poor kids in the back row will run out of the church in horror.

  2. Great post. I agree with most of it, although I would need to think more about “CV is the most important”.

    My comment on Jim’s post, which he may or may not accept:

    Jim West believes in baptism by immersion. Mormons believe in baptism by immersion. Therefore, by the logic used in this post, Jim West is a Mormon.

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