the methodists think little of John Wesley

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William Law on the effects of a church decree

Benjamin Hoadly by Sarah Hoadly
This guy is being laughed at by Zwingli. Just imagine that scene. Benjamin Hoadly by Sarah Hoadly (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Basically, and help me if this sounds familiar, the Bishop of Bangor said that there is no biblical support for church government/authority of the church. William Law did not take kindly to this rank heresy and proceeded to literarily flay the bishop alive.

Again; I presume it may very justly be said, that the Christian Revelation hath some Effect towards the Salvation of Mankind; but then it hath not this Effect always and in all Cases, it is only effectual upon certain Conditions. Now if Excommunication can have no Effect, because it is not effectual when it is wrongfully pronounced, then the Christian Revelation can have no Effect towards saving those who embrace it as they should, because it has no such Effect on those who embrace it otherwise. The Reason of the Thing is the same in both Cases, and anyone may as justly set forth the Vanity and Insignificancy of the Christian Revelation, because it does not save all its Professors, as your Lordship exposes the Weakness and Vanity of spiritual Censures, because they do not absolutely, and in all Cases, throw People out of God’s Favour.

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Will N.T. Wright become Methodist when the Church of England disappears?

Dr Rowan Williams PC, DPhil, DD, FBA the 104th...
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According to new reports, unless the CoE have a radical campaign to recruit members, they will forever vanish soon enough:

In the last 40 years the number of adult churchgoers has fallen by half while the number of children regularly worshipping in public declined by 80 per cent, the study says….

….The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has acknowledged that the Church must devote more energy to increasing the number of regular worshippers over the next five years….

“This decline in membership, and the accompanying rise in average age, means that fewer people are becoming disciples of Jesus Christ, and that the Church is able to have less impact and influence in the public realm, both nationally and in the transformation of local communities,” it says.

“We are faced with a stark and urgent choice: do we spend the next few years managing decline, or do we go for growth?

“In other words, do we accept the continual numerical decline of the Church of England as inevitable, or do we dare to believe a different future, that God might want his Church to grow, in holiness and in numbers?” (here)

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Anglicans and Lutherans are flooding the Tiber

Category:Roman Catholic dioceses in England an...
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It isn’t just the Anglicans who are swimming the Tiber, but so too the Lutherans

What first began with prominent Lutherans, such as Richard John Neuhaus (1990) and Robert Wilken (1994), coming into the Catholic Church, has become more of a landslide that could culminate in a larger body of Lutherans coming into the collectively.

In 2000, former Canadian Lutheran Bishop Joseph Jacobson came into the Church.


Over the past several years, an increasing number of Lutheran theologians have joined the Church’s ranks, some of whom now teach at Catholic colleges and universities. They include, but are not limited to: Paul Quist (2005), Richard Ballard (2006), Paul Abbe (2006), Thomas McMichael, Mickey Mattox, David Fagerberg, Bruce Marshall, Reinhard Hutter, Philip Max Johnson, and most recently, Dr. Michael Root (2010).

(of course, the story was written by Batman’s sidekick…)

On the news of that, comes the fact that more and more Anglicans are joining Rome, fleeing what many consider to be a dying Church, led by Rowan Williams,

About 900 members of the Church of England have taken the first step toward becoming Catholics, the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales said Tuesday.

The converts participated in a Rite of Election, the first step toward confirmation, over the weekend, the church said.

They will be joining the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, established by Pope Benedict XVI to receive Anglicans who increasingly have felt isolated since the Church of England decided in 1992 to ordain women as priests.

Tensions have grown as the governing General Synod moves to allow women to become bishops while denying any specific protection for traditionalists. Converts joining the ordinariate will be allowed to keep some Anglican liturgy and traditions.

Whenever they get Tom Wright, let me know.

Growing up, we were always taught that the sign of the End Times was the rejoining of the Protestants to Rome. Of course, what they didn’t understand is the downward slide, as seen by many, of the Protestant denominations into loose theology, to no theology, and the draw of more hardline teaching as espoused by Rome. Not only that, the renewal of Rome from within, on such issues as Justification, and the such, among other things. They also didn’t understand the role in which post-modernism plays into it all. When you come to realize that your denomination (doesn’t apply to Lutherans or the Anglicans) isn’t really more than 40 or 50 years old, well, it sorta plays into your mind set.

Anyway, late night thoughts to annoy Jeremy.

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Not Christian-lite, just theological easy

St. Maria Parish Church, Sehnde, Holy Mass
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Okay, so I might have found my jibe a bit short sited, but thanks to Doug for setting me aright.

The Liverpool Diocese said additional texts should be prepared as alternatives for passages in the Common Worship baptismal services used at the overwhelming majority of the 139,000 CofE baptisms every year.

The Rev Dr Tim Stratford, from Kirkby, said a group of clergy from deprived parishes in the Liverpool Diocese had discussed their misgivings about some of the language in the baptismal service.

He said the tension between understandability and historic theological references was “as sharp as ever” in rites such as baptism involving large numbers of people including parents and godparents who are “unchurched”.

One of the passages highlighted by the group was the Prayer over Water, during the baptismal service, which speaks of the children of Israel being led from slavery in Egypt to freedom in the Promised Land.

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Okay… I can get this. England is living in an unchurched state. Breaking those bearers down, if it is not about removing Christianity but about sharing the Gospel in the language of the people, is something that we should support. Get them to Church first and then educate them in theology.

Yup – Sorry, Fr. Chaplin. I’ll wait to pass a thumbs up or down until the exact motions come out.

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The Coming End of the Anglican Communion?

Things are getting nasty in merry olde England!

When the Primates of the Anglican Communion meet next month in Dublin, Ireland, there will be eleven empty chairs, possibly more. Of the 38 Primates expected to show up, only 27 will take their seats opposite the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Rev. Canon Kenneth Kearon, Secretary General of the Anglican Consultative Council.

It will be a defining moment for Dr. Rowan Williams who has fought hard to keep the Anglican Communion together. Missing will be archbishops from Africa, the Middle East, South East Asia and the Southern Cone. Two of the African provinces – Nigeria and Uganda – comprise some 31 million of the Communion’s 70 million Anglicans.

By any measure, it can only be viewed as the biggest single embarrassment for the titular head of the Anglican Communion and seen as a failure of Anglican comprehensiveness and unity. It may also signal the unraveling of a Covenant aimed at holding the communion together.

On the other hand, it will be viewed as a “victory” for Western pan-Anglican liberal primates and their agenda for a more open, progressive, less doctrinaire, but more accommodating to a culture that embraces pansexuality.

via VirtueOnline – News – Exclusives – Dublin Could be Archbishop of Canterbury’s Waterloo.

I foresee that many Anglican conservatives will make their way, fully into Rome while the Anglican liberals will find their leadership in the U.S. and Canada.

Where Tom Wright ends up, I dunno.

Wonder if King William will still have an Anglican Church?

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More on Benedict’s Gambit

I’ve been watching EWTN all weekend, listening to it’s take on this newest surprise from Rome. Whether people understanding it or not, it has for reaching implications…even beyond our imaginations.

The Church of England has survived the Spanish Armada, the English Civil War and Elton John performing “Candle in the Wind” at Princess Diana’s Westminster Abbey funeral. So it will probably survive the note the Vatican issued last week, inviting disaffected Anglicans to head Romeward, and offering them an Anglo-Catholic mansion within the walls of the Roman Catholic faith.

Continue reading “More on Benedict’s Gambit”

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WOW: Vatican welcome to Anglicans boldest move since Reformation

Vatican City – The Vatican launched an historic initiative Tuesday to make it easier for disgruntled Anglicans worldwide to join the Roman Catholic Church. The church said the move was not a swipe at the Anglicans but it could nevertheless result in hundreds of thousands of churchgoers unhappy with openly gay and female clerics defecting to Rome.

Pope Benedict XVI gave his approval to a new framework to bring back into the fold Anglicans who oppose their church’s liberal stance on gay marriage and the ordination of women priests and gay bishops while allowing them to retain some of their separate religious traditions.

Continue reading “WOW: Vatican welcome to Anglicans boldest move since Reformation”

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