Proud as Peacocks: The Hypocrisy of the Holiness Movement

The Male Peacock

I have a confession to make – I am holiness. I support this, not in the legalistic manner in which some do, but in an effort to be modest, and to devoid myself of pride and the things of this world. Further, I believe that the life of a Christian is not bound in material goods, but in humility before God and man. We do not seek to please man in anything that we do – whether doctrine or dress. The less we spend on fashions, the more we can spend on the things that matter. If we devote ourselves wholly to God, then the prideful things of this world will no longer matter.

Some hold to the length of a skirt as a matter of heaven and hell – I do not. With that said, I believe that if certain standards are set, then those standards should be adhered to by the community which has agreed to those standards. This article is about defending holiness, but about taking to task the rampant sexism found so often among those who practice it.

The holiness movement is noted for their women who have long, uncut hair, no make-up, the rare piece of jewelry, usually limited to a wedding ring, long dresses, loosing fitting clothes, and a quite personality. If a woman wears brightly colored clothing, you can almost hear everyone in the building whisper ‘harlot.’ If the sleeves are above the elbows, well, she might as well be naked. If she wears jewelry beyond a wedding ring, well, she might be compared to a street walker, and heaven help us all if the style of a woman’s hear is anything but a bun on top of the head.

Can you smell the brimstone yet?

The men, on the other hand, well, they cannot wear shorts.

Do you see the disparity here?

Male and Female Peacocks
Male and Female Peacocks

Peacocks, like most waterfowl, have the females dulled in color while the males are given to bright patterns. The same is said for what has taken hold in the holiness movement as of late. The woman are kept docile. They are to dress in dark colors, very loosing fitting, with hair either left to hang on twirled into a bun. They are not to appear as if they care about their personal appearance beyond that of personal hygiene. They are the personal property of their husbands and are not to be seen with clothing that might attack a glance.

The men, well, they are allowed a full array of clothing. They can wear sharp three piece suits, zoot suits, loud ties, purple shoes, and put enough oil in their hair that the Exxon Valdez looks like a pinprick. They can wear purple, pink, bright blue, loud red, and generally any color in the rainbow and the hex coloring system. Snake skin is acceptable. Shoot, why not leopard print? They can wear t-shirts with short sleeves – who cares about the tattoos? The male of the holiness species is often highlighted if they standout.

And jewelry – watches, rings, tie pins, and the amount of silver and gold on their shoes! Peacocks, the lot of them.

Is it fair to require something of women that we do not of men? Is there a double standard in the eyes of God or is it in the eyes of man?

Women, our wives, are not our personal property which we hide from the world while we are allowed to strut around looking like peacocks. If our women are demanded to clothe themselves in modesty, then were is the same command for men?

We are told numerous times to watch our communication, our conduct, that it be worthy of the Gospel of Christ and that it be done in simplicity and godly sincerity. Further, we are told that God is a not a respecter of persons, and that there is neither male nor female before God. If this is so, then while we may hold different offices, we must not be treated in a different manner. What is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

UPDATE:

You know what else gets my goat about this? Dancing, etc.. is preached against from the pulpit, but if pastor’s grandchildren want to dress up emo style, sing in Teen Idol, and go to prom, why, that’s just fine and dandy.

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50 Replies to “Proud as Peacocks: The Hypocrisy of the Holiness Movement”

  1. I figured this out 30 years ago and the ensuing years have reinforced it. If you look at conservative religion (doesn’t matter, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim) there are these “holiness standards” that are heavier upon women than upon men. Women are basically made to be the guardians of male sexuality, and as a result, women have to dress as the community expects so that we don’t tempt men (whether it be by wearing makeup, having loose hair, wearing more than one ring, exposing an ankle, or a saucy eye peeping out from behind the screen of a burqa. Seriously, the “holiness” rules for men are short, while for women there’s a long, long, LONG list.

    What I particularly figured out back in 1979 was that if women weren’t allowed to wear slacks, our freedom of movement was being restricted. Ride a horse? Fergit it. Climb a fence? Notta chance. Do cartwheels? Nope. And then women engaged in all these subterfuges to get around the no pants restrictions: wearing skirts over the pants so they could ride the aforementioned horses, or skirts over their snow pants so they wouldn’t freeze their butts off.

    But the interesting thing is that it doesn’t matter the religion, the conservative aspects all have one thing in common: women are made to display our holiness in an outward manner and it’s much less so for men.

    1. I’ve ridden a horse in a skirt. And though nothing I would do as an adult, I have done cartwheels in a skirt. In mixed company – not a good idea. But I have done it when with my friend.

      Why are you looking at the glass as only half-full?

  2. Depends on what you mean by holy. God makes us holy (positional sanctification) when we accept Christ.
    But at the same time, we have a responsibility to grow in personal holiness, or personal sanctification. The latter is much harder.

  3. There is no such thing as personal holiness and holiness in Christ. There’s only one way to be holy and that is to not sin anymore.

    Have you ever wondered if a Christian who is still sinning when he dies will go to heaven? Did he really have the Holy Spirit in him?

    The pastor who married my ex and I was a pastor of a large Christian church for 25 years. He was put in prison for having sexual intercourse with his three daughters while they were growing up. Is this man saved or not? If you believe he’s saved because he believed in Jesus, then you need to read 1John 3:1-10. This man was not who you think he was.

    A 30 year pastor of a huge Christian church we went to got up in front of the whole congregation with his wife and three adults and confessed to having a ten month affair with a woman from the congregation. Is he saved or did Christ let him off the hook? Is this a holy man or a sinner?

    People who believe a Christian can go on sinning after he supposedly receives the Holy Spirit are liars. No one is covering those sins because they were unconfessed and not forgiven of by the Lord. Eternal life is a gift to those who are obedient to the Lord’s Commandments, not to those who are disobedient and unholy.

    Holiness is obeying all God’s laws and commandments, not just a few of them. Only the Holy Spirit can give you the power to live a holy life, one without sin.

    1. This sounds more like Orthodox Judaism than it does like Christianity. You spit on the cross of Christ and trust in your own good behavior more than His blood. You make God too small and yourself too big with your Arminian free will doctrine.

  4. Most people don’t understand these things about sin because they haven’t been in the situation where they are sinless. The scripture that I sent in my last comment shows that no one born of God will sin. This statement is either true or false.

    John also writes that anyone who sins is born of Satan. This means that if you profess to be a Christian and you are sinning, then you are not of God, you are born of Satan. Do you really think that God would go through all that effort to give us his Holy Spirit to let us keep sinning? And how long do we get to keep sinning for before we are holy? What if we die before we become holy? Are we going to be acceptable to God then?

    You can rationalize your sins all you want but that is not from God. Those who have the Holy Spirit living in them know that they don’t sin anymore.

    Bless you,
    Brad

    1. You need to relearn your Greek. The passage in John indicates the habitual practice of sin. There is no difference between your Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism. Your faith rests in your good works and not the finished work of Jesus Christ’s life and substitutionary death on the cross.

    2. I disagree, Brad. I tried to go one day without sinning. It’s impossible. Paul the Apostle mentions towards the end of his life that he is the chief of all sinners. This was after his salvation experience. Once you accept Jesus into your life as your savior, you are saved from that moment on, period. Ephesians 2:8-9 says: It is by grace you have been saved through faith, not by works lest any should boast.

      1. Mark, It is possible to go a day without sinning. I have done it. I didn’t do it overnight, and I had to take responsibility for myself and make up my mind if I wanted to change. It took self sacrifice, but it can be done. But if you are not there yet, and still trying, that’s good – it’s part of your personal journey learning to walk. In the meantime, the Bible says that we have an advocate with Christ to ask forgiveness when we do.
        Trying to re-write the Bible to fit our convenience, or trying to overcome the what the Bible says by trying to revert to intellectual discussion of history, etc. isn’t going to change things for your soul.
        To say that God is unable to change us is to deny who He is, and the whole purpose that He came to die for our sins. If He is not able to make a real change, then what was the point. We already had “good people” in the world who were trying to do their best.
        Look, it’s a personal decision. But I can tell you from experience, if you are ready to turn it all over to God, and make the sacrifices, God will see you thru. That’s a promise.

  5. Jesus has made those who believe in Him perfect.
    Hebrews 10:14

    because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

    We are called to live worth of our calling
    Ephesians 4:1

    As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received.

    But that does not mean we are perfect in this life.

  6. God doesn’t care what translation of the Bible we use. This is man’s idea to make people believe they have the true translation.

    The Holy Spirit gives understanding of all things and the spirit of truth to know Jesus Christ as the Lord. Without this Holy Spirit, you don’t know God. This is why John was saying anyone who is born of God does not sin. He can’t sin because he has God living in him. Why is it so hard for you to believe that a person won’t sin after he receives the Holy Spirit? Are you going by the Holy Spirit you think you have in you? Could you believe the spirit you think you have might be the spirit of Satan who is deceiving you of the truth?

    You don’t understand that it isn’t me that made myself sinless. It is the Holy Spirit who makes a person sinless. Those people who think they had the Holy Spirit in them cannot stop sinning. These are the people who are born of Satan. They never had the true spirit in them in the first place. So if you are still sinning from the heart, which includes pride, lust, anger, envy, jealousy, gluttony, and greed, then you aren’t born of God. These sins lead to all that is unGodly. This is not from God and when he comes to live in you, you will never do these sins again. If you deny this, then you are not a son of God and don’t know the Jesus Christ that gave you his spirit to be holy. You are acting on your own accord and all that you do is vain.

    1. Okay, so after the person received the Holy Spirit then he is a perfect person who does things right like go to church, not cuss, not look at women, doesn’t drink beer, no smoking, always tithes, votes Republican, active in the community, gives to the poor, and yells at homosexuals. I tell you, these are filthy raggy works. Isaiah 64:6 Righteous works are filthy rags.

  7. Can’t you understand that being born of God is the same thing as receiving the Holy Spirit? You are a sinner until you have the Holy Spirit in you. Jesus said he came to write the Law and Commandments in our hearts and minds, which is the Holy Spirit. Once you have the spirit in you, you cannot lie anymore.

    We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

    This is a verse you just gave me in your comment. How can you not understand that once you receive the Holy Spirit you will not ever sin again. The verse about a brother who sins is still a sinner who hasn’t received the Holy Spirit yet. I knew God 29 years before I finally received his Holy Spirit. He performed many healings and miracles for me during that time. He spoke to me often and finally the last two years before he came into me, he worked on getting me purified of the rest of my sins. Lust and pride were a stronghold in my life but God was able to get me to repent of them. About a year later and some other issues he worked out for me, he came to me and asked for my life. When I told him to take it all, then he moved in and he’s been in me ever since. He’s the one who gives me understanding of all things. Does this go against your doctrines of men? Or do you think God is capable of doing his own will and in his own way? Do you believe that I can perform miracles and heal people like Jesus Christ did? Isn’t it Jesus that said that whoever receives the Holy Spirit would do everything he could do and even more they could do? If we’re able to do these things, do you think God would allow us to keep sinning? How would it look to see someone hustling chicks while he’s healing people?

    I think you better read the Bible a little closer and read it as a sinless person instead of a sinner. Then you will get a different message from it. It doesn’t matter which translation you use. That is only a gimmick some men made up. The Bible isn’t the word of God anyhow. The Word of God is the Holy Spirit and I don’t think the Bible is a spirit. Once you have the Holy Spirit, then you can understand the Bible and read it all you want. But before you have the spirit to help you understand it, the devil likes to use it for his deception. It is his favorite tool to keep you deceived of the truth.

    1. 1 John 1:8-9 If we say that we have no sin,we deceive ourselves,and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins,he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

  8. BJ,

    It DOES matter how you translate the original languages. The translations which hold to the idea that one does not sin (without regard to tense) miss the fact that 1 Jn 3:9 has a tense indicating a continual practice of sin. That is to say that those who have the Holy Spirit will not practice sin in a habitual manner. They will make mistakes and the Holy Spirit will convict them of it and they will change, rather than continue to sin.

    To believe you are without sin is to set yourself up for a fall and to harm others around yourself. My wife’s grandfather believed he was not a sinner. It was interesting to watch him live his life innocently hurting others who he loved and who loved him and yet he claimed he did not sin.

    The fact is, the idea that no one ever sins once coming to Christ is a false doctrine that contradicts what scripture says elsewhere.

    1 John 2:1-2 tells us we are not to sin but if we do, it is forgiven. It is obvious from scripture we need forgiveness. And it is equally obvious no one who lives is without sin, for none of us are complete until we are with Christ in heaven.

  9. I haven’t belonged to any church in 16 years. I only follow the spirit of God, who first came to me in 1979 while I was still a drunk. After he took the desire of drinking alcohol away from me, I’ve been following him ever since.

    I speak from experience with him, not only from reading the Bible. Now he speaks through me and gives me understanding of all things. Your futile attempts to prove that I don’t sin anymore only tells me that you’re still a sinner who needs to repent. Once you repent of your sins and forgiven by Jesus Christ, then you can receive the Holy Spirit. The problem is that it is very difficult to give him those sins, which is your worldly life. If you can’t give up your life, then you will not receive the Holy Spirit that keeps you from sinning.

    I don’t sin anymore because he forgave me of all my sins and now he lives in me to keep me from ever sinning again. This is all scriptural but you fail to believe in the scriptures I have given you. All the prophets talked about these holy and righteous people that are of God’s but people don’t believe the holiness means without sin. Why did they call Jesus holy? Because he was without sin. All the saints who received the Holy Spirit after Jesus became holy and righteous like Jesus. The only sinfulness they had was the flesh they had to live in but was dead in the eyes of God. Their hearts were pure and holy.

    Most Christians believe they have the Holy Spirit in them but it is only the power of suggestion that caused them to believe this. Similar to what a hypnotist does to someone. Once they believe they have the spirit, they believe it forever unless they are born of God and know the truth. If you have the real Holy Spirit in you then you should be able to heal and perform miracles like Jesus did. You should understand everything I say in these commments, too. You should understand the things about sinning, repenting and forgiveness. But most of all, the Holy Spirit should tell you that he is God and let you know who you are in the spirit of Jesus Christ. He will tell you that you were created in his spirit from the very beginning and chosen to be in his Kingdom of God. Jesus Christ told us that he knew his sheep and that he came to find the lost sheep. The lost sheep are the saints who were chosen and created in his spirit.

    If you didn’t know these things, then you don’t have the true Holy Spirit in you. That’s the reason you can’t stop sinning. No man can stop sinning on his own. He has to have God working out these things so he can repent of his sins and be forgiven of them. It doesn’t work any other way.

    When a saint such as Paul preached the gospel of the Kingdom, the spirit of Christ is what he preaches. It’s not necessarily the words that bring in a person to repentance, it’s the spirit that does that. After Paul would get this person to repent of all his sins, which is the purification part of our salvation, then the Lord would forgive them and come to live in that person. But no one knew when the Holy Spirit would move in to them. Sometimes he could come in right after they were forgiven and other times not until after they were baptized by water. Others weren’t given the Holy Spirit until a long time after they were baptized in water. But whoever had the right faith in God would ultimately receive the Holy Spirit.

    Today, a sinner can go to a church and say the sinners prayer and have the Holy Spirit in five minutes without even repenting of one sin. This is only a deception by Satan to keep people from the truth of the real Holy Spirit. It takes much longer to get the real Holy Spirit than five minutes. It only took me 29 years but I didn’t have any disciple to help me with the process. I spent 9 years in Christian churches but no one knew anything about the Holy Spirit except the one that everybody thought they had. I was able to ask God for healings and miracles, which he honored everytime, but I knew that it wasn’t coming from within me. It was only the spirit of God who was helping me through the justification and purification process that a disciple usually does. God doesn’t need church buildings, religions, or even Bibles to get us into the Kingdom. That’s all man’s ideas. Where does it say in the Bible that we find our salvation in the Bible or going to church? Where does it say we have to build nice fancy church buildings and put a bunch of idols in it so we can see how Godly it is? Christianity is a man’s religion and doesn’t come from God. Jesus Christ’s church was built on the Holy Spirit and nothing else, but man couldn’t see this spirit and built a religion and churches around it so they could worship their God, not the true God that comes to us in spirit. The best thing for a sinner is to throw the Bibles away so they can follow God instead of listening to their own interpretations of the scriptures that deceive them. Didn’t you know that you should have to have the Holy Spirit in you to understand the scriptures? Otherwise your interpretations aren’t to be trusted and leads you to teach false doctrines. That’s why Christianity has so many doctrines today. Nobody has the true Holy Spirit to keep the false doctrines out of it.

    You tell me that I have a false doctrine but I know differently. The Holy Spirit in me doesn’t lie and tells me who is a false teacher. It only takes a few written lines before I know if you have the spirit or not. I knew who you were before I even made my first comment. But that’s for you to figure out now that I’ve told you all these things. I’m the real deal and know God intimately. If you deny this, then you have proved to me who you are.

    Brad

  10. I know I said it but you don’t believe it. That’s what I’m trying to tell you, you are in unbelief. None of what I say matters to you because you keep on sinning and need an excuse to keep doing it. Jesus Christ could be sitting right next to you quoting Matthew 5 an you would ignore everything he says. The truth can only be told to those who will listen and it’s obvious you aren’t willing to do that. This is the blindness and deafness that the Lord was talking about. They only hear what they want to hear and forget about the rest. Why be a Christian if that’s all you’re going to do with it. Why don’t you just go out and drink beer and chase women, or do you still do that?

  11. Bj, let me count your sins for you.

    Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
    (Hebrews 10:25 KJVA)

    Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for
    “God resists the proud,
    But gives grace to the humble.”[2]

    (1 Peter 5:5 NKJV)

    Now, you have said that you haven’t belong to a Church in 16 years. Therefore, you sin in both areas.

    Further, you preach another gospel which was not preached by the Apostles (Galatians 1) which itself a curse.

    You deny the Scriptures (2nd Timothy 3.16), but rely on what you have deemed the Word of God, which you call the Holy Spirit. The Word (Logos) of God is Jesus Christ. Therefore, you deny a central truth.

    You have pride, and lack humility.

    You add to the Word of God (Deut 12.32) and then take away from it.

    You call God a liar when you say that you no longer sin.

    You provide no answer based in Scripture.

    You give credit to yourself, or Paul, and others, instead of relying fully upon the Grace of God. You add preparation time when none is seen in Scripture.

    You have a great hate in your heart for others, feeling that you are superior to them because of your false doctrine.

    You call the things of God the things of the adversary

    You deny the Church and the real Word of God.

    You call Paul a liar when you say that the Church is built upon your Holy Spirit.

    You commend people to discard the word of God.

    How many sins can we count from your mere words. I pray that you find the real Spirit of the real living God, and not the cheap imitation that you have deceived yourself into having.

  12. Bj,

    What a silly argument that you have made – no one is talking about drinking beer and chasing women. We are talking about the imperfections in the Christian walk. When Paul said that he had to die daily, and to die out to sin, do you really think he had a problem chasing women? No. What was it for him? Pride perhaps? Anger? No matter, he sought forgiveness.

    As did Abraham. David. Peter. Me.

  13. BJ,

    Either you’re not in your right mind, or English is not your first language, or you really need to proof-read what you write. You thought you had given a scripture verse when you had not. Then you said you don’t sin, then you said we’re trying to prove you dont sin, then you said you don’t sin. I don’t need to prove you don’t sin, because its evident that you do. The Holy Spirit does not prevent you from making sinful choices or acting in ways that are not the expression of love. It is for this reason we need to die to sin daily. I think Polycarp and I would agree we need to not sin, with the power of the Holy Spirit. It is God who gives us both the desire and the ability to do what He wants. But it still rests upon us to do so, otherwise the majority of the New Testament would not have had to be written. None of us are perfect and we sin – even John said if you say you are without sin that the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8).

    As for the idea that all believers will do miracles, that is refuted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:28-30, where he makes it clear not everyone is to work miracles or heal or speak in tongues or teach or prophecy.

  14. wbmore, you better read those verses by Paul again. Where does he say that not everyone will work miracles or heal? He only asked questions, he didn’t answer them. Some of us have many of these qualities while others might just have one. But God can use any one of us to perform miracles or healings or raise the dead or do whatever it takes to find his lost sheep of the Kingdom. I was only making a point anyway. How many people in your church have been healing and performing miracles lately? Any at all?

    That quote from 1 John 1:8 has nothing to do with someone in the spirit. This refers to people who don’t have the Holy Spirit yet. You have to read the rest of 1 John to get a clear picture of the sinless nature that the Holy Spirit gives to those he lives in.

    Polycarp,

    I came in here to share the truth of the spirit. You have been denying it all along. Don’t you realize you are condemning the Holy Spirit by this denial? You’ve been searching the scriptures to prove me wrong but that isn’t going to help your denial at all. You believe that is is up to us to not sin. You are dead wrong because no man can stop sinning on his own. Paul wasn’t talking about an ongoing sin in his life. He understood very well that the Holy Spirit made him holy and sinless. But he understood that he was still on this earth living in his flesh, which is mortal and will eventually die and go back to dust in the earth. The flesh is impure but his heart was pure and holy, just as Jesus was pure and holy. If you have sin in your heart, then you need Jesus to purify you. There is no way you can cleanse yourself.

    I’m not against you in any way. I’m only a preacher of the gospel looking for those who know God. If you’re not looking for the truth, then I will be on my way. Sorry about this disruption in your lives. I’m sure you will get over it quickly.

    God bless you guys,
    Brad

  15. Bj, I will let Wb answer for himself.

    Bj, you have yet to answer Scripture with Scripture, relying on you own understanding. There was no need for you to share your truth, because it dismisses the Word of God. Where, again, is the Scripture for your doctrine? You claim to know Paul’s thoughts, but they are contradictory to his words. I would suggest, before you think to impart some wisdom, you measure it against Scripture, or else, your doctrine have no weight, only to trap you into sin and blasphemy, as I have shown.

  16. My doctrine is in my heart and mind in the form of the Holy Spirit. This Holy Spirit is the same spirit that inspired the people who wrote the scriptures. I have over 150 writings that the Holy Spirit inspired me to write so far since this winter. Everything I write comes from him.

    In order for me to explain some of these writings, I would have to show you hundreds of scriptures of which you wouldn’t be able to figure out anyway. It isn’t the words that contain the truth. The truth is the spirit that is spoken through the content of the words. This is why Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and all the different saints spoke differently about things. The spirit uses their own vocabulary and thinking process to preach him with. When a saint is preaching the gospel, he is actually preaching the spirit of Jesus that is heard by those who need to hear it. These are the people who have faith in God and will understand this voice of the spirit. They are the ones who will follow the Holy Spirit of Christ into the Kingdom of God, which is the Holy Spirit and the spirit of Jesus Christ. All the these people were created in this spirit of Jesus before the foundations of the world existed. Paul was the one who said this but I can’t remember which letter he said it in. That’s why they know God’s voice and follow him.

    The Holy Spirit always gives me spiritual things to talk about. Satan is off limits to such things. This is how you can know that I’m speaking the truth. There is no deception in what the Holy Spirit gives me to say. If you find error in my teachings, then it’s possible you are in error yourself. Have you ever considered that? Pride and other sins will keep you from the truth unless they are repented of and forgiven by God. You cannot understand the things of God and have sin in you. Satan won’t allow that. If you have sin in your heart, you are in Satan’s control and he’ll do whatever it takes to keep you from the Holy Spirit. This war of Satan’s on the Holy Spirit started a very long time ago and he won’t stop until all the saints have been killed and their Holy Spirit is back with the Lord. You can read about the killing of the saints in chapter 6 of Revelation. In chapter 20 you will see the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ, which started when Jesus went up to heaven after his death and resurrection. Then you will see all those saints who have been beheaded for not accepting the mark of the beast. The beast is Satan’s deception on the whole world and those who don’t belong in the Kingdom of God were marked by Satan before they were even born.

    I just wrote a blog about Revelation if you want to read it. Then you will understand a little more of who I am. I’m not some stupid Christian with a false doctrine. I’m only a servant of the Lord’s who gives me understanding of all things and has me write or speak the truth. Here’s my site. So far I’ve written two blogs called the, “The garden of eden of our minds” and “The beast of revelation” If you read them, you will need the Holy Spirit to identify the truth.

    http://bjhulk.wordpress.com/

    God bless you,
    Brad

  17. BJ,

    You made the statement “If you have the real Holy Spirit in you then you should be able to heal and perform miracles like Jesus did.” But that goes against what Scripture says.

    You need to study the word of God better. Paul made it clear that not everyone does miracles and healing in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11

    4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

    7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

    Then in v27-31, Paul continued,

    27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
    And now I will show you the most excellent way.

    It is evident the questions Paul asked are rhetorical questions because not everyone is an apostle or prophet and in the same way one does miracles or heals.

    Your very words deny the word of God. Then you said, “Some of us have many of these qualities while others might just have one.” God gives the gifts as He sees fit. You keep contradicting the Bible, contradicting yourself and backpedaling.

    And it is evident the quote from 1 John 1:8 is made to people who believe, for John wrote in 1 Jn 2:1

    My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

    and in 1 Jn 2:12-14

    12 I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
    13 I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father.
    14 I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

    We all need the sacrifice Christ has made on our behalf. We all need the Holy Spirit to guide us, to empower us, to enable us to be obedient. We need to obey Christ. But none of us are perfect. Sometimes we are more in tune with Him than other times. None of us are perfect. Thank God, we have perfection within us if we have the Holy Spirit, the spirit of God.

  18. Go back and read my previous post to you. I pointed out where you are back peddling and contradicting scripture. Here is the link: http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/proud-as-peacocks-the-hypocrisy-of-the-holiness-movement/#comment-19810 .

    Yes, people have been healed in the particular church I currently attend. But that really means little. I’ve seen heresy taught in churches which claim to be led by the Holy Spirit and had people who claimed the signed gifts, and I’ve seen many godly people in churches which do not have the charismatic gifts in evidence.

    What matters is whether people love God and have faith in the saving work of Jesus Christ.

  19. I grew up in a Pilgrim Holiness home except for the point that my grandfather (that raised me) was Church of the Brethren. In my growing up years, it was easy to wear dresses as that was the dress code for public school. As a matter of fact, I had to get special permission from the principal to wear pants under my dresses during the winter months!

    My maternal great grandmother wore her prayer kapp (black during the week and white for church) every day until she was hired as a cook and housekeeper for a gentleman, we called Pappy. She continued to wear her hair in an upsweep (more as a gibson then a plain bun), plain clothing, complete with black stockings.

    My maternal grandmother was put in an arranged marriage by my Granny. He was 34 and she was 17. When they were married, she refused to wear anything connected with the church. My grandmother gave him nine live births and lost the tenth while she was collecting eggs from the henhouse; Her life was a living Hell. Once all were grown except for the youngest three, she left him and moved to another state with a man and lived as a common law wife for twenty years until my grandfather was persuaded to give her a divorce just so she couldn’t get his insurance policy (which was used to buried him). You must remember at that time, women were still considered chattel though we had the right to vote, so she could not fight him to take her children with her.

    Because of her getting smart and finally living a life of her own, my parents were elected to move into the farmhouse (no running water, most of the time we had to use kerosene lamps because the electricity was so faulty and yes, an outhouse). I was told that the reason we got stuck there was because I was an only child; all other of her brothers and sisters married into the military or were in the military and had two children or more; my life was a living Hell, so my female parental carbon unit took on the responsibility of her two youngest brothers and youngest sister. The boys were caught drinking and were kicked out of the house (by my mother) and the girl was fed up with being told she was nothing but a whore, etc (by my mother) and yes, not many years from that point I also got the same treatment, but not as hard. When my maternal grandfather (urged on by my mother) finally gave my grandmother a divorce, she and her new husband (after twenty years of living together) moved back to our hometown, I used to go visit and we would have long talks about my grandfather, my mother and the treatment of both of us.

    In spite of all this, I loved my church. I loved the fact that it was one room, outhouse in the back and the preacher’s children were all around my age. I loved the fact that we would get on our knees, face the back of the pew and if the Word of God came upon us, we were allowed to speak. Rarely did a male open his mouth, but women were more open in their belief. We would stay like that until a silent period went by and then we would stand up and sing to the Glory of God and His Son, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    When I was moved to another state by my husband, I found a Church of the Brethren just down the road. There I was baptized. To this day, I wear my prayer kapp on my Holy Days, wear clothing that is not ostentatious (always), very little jewelry (always) and cut my bangs every summer. I’ve also cut my hair for cancer several times. I have two prayer kapps, one that completely covers my hair and one that only covers the top part of my head when I wear my hair down. I also have pierced ears, love bracelets and rings. Do I wear them? Yes, but not to the point that reflects poor taste. I wear black, navy blue, brown and gray stockings with sensible shoes, yet I will wear shorts, sleeveless tops, a two piece bathing suit and go barelegged when the season warrants lighter clothing.

    I do not feel that I am stirring the Wrath of God against me nor my children. He knows what is in my heart; my children: Number One Son joined his wife’s church and was baptized as a Baptist…my only problem is that he, she and their children do not attend any kind of church services; Number Two Son is agnostic and married to an atheist…my only problem is that he, she and their children do not attend any kind of church services; Number Three Son was baptized into the Church of the Brethren the same time I was…my only problem is that he does not attend any kind of church services; Number Four Son was baptized into the Church of the Brethren after his father died and we moved back to our home state…he is a pagan, though he admits that God Almighty is the God of Gods…my only problem is that he does not attend any kind of services.

    Yes, I wear my religion in everything I do. I do not feel oppressed or out of touch with today. Churches today have gone too far to accommodate anything to keep their building in use. I do enjoy modern praise and worship songs but truly enjoy singing the hymns I learned as a child. I despair that Christians are no longer an acceptable people, especially since we do not have our head in the sand; do understand others. Just because we have never made it an issue does not give any of them the right to tell us we are wrong. I detest that my taxes are going to pay for women that do not have the sense to say no or to even keep their legs closed. I detest that my taxes are going to pay for men that believe they are allowed to impregnate any female just because they carry the seed. I detest the current administration and all it stands for as if the world can only survive if the government tells us what we can and cannot do. The United States of America was begun because of religious freedom. All were accepted and now we have barbarians that want to destroy everything we hold dear because of the half Arab half Caucasian that was elected under false pretenses.

    I now step off of my soap box.

  20. I read the original article wit a bit of a chuckle. I have been part of the holiness movement for 35 years, and have attended church in many states and even internationally due to the nature of my career. I have never, ever heard of some of the things mentioned. For example: women are told not to wear bright clothing and are seen as “loose” if they do? Never, ever heard anything so ridiculous in all my years of being part of the holiness movement. But perhaps the writer is referring to a particular church or a small community since the “updated” comments about the preacher and kids seem very personal. And hence may lie the problem. Holiness is not man made and therefore can’t be manipulated by a person. It’s necessary for salvation (Hebrews 12:14). I could tell you to wear hot pants – if it pleases me – or tell you not to wear them , but God’s standards will still be the same. We must have holiness if we want to get into heaven. God is a holy God, and to think that he would require anything less than our best is not logical.

    1. Just because you haven’t heard of it, doesn’t mean it never happens. Holiness Cults are everywhere. Heartless preacher pushing their outward standards on men and women alike. But it is true, men get away with much more than women in the CULTS of outward nonsense. We have seen it for 20 yrs. A man with an experience in never at the mercy of a man with an argument. We have lived it and left this form of bondage. Holiness is not what a man tells you it is. Don’t be deceived! Christ came to set us free, not to let men put you back into bondage. I don’t care if they call themselves minister, pastor, or prophet.

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