John Loftus v. Jim West 2011

So, Jim posted something this morning calling for the death of atheists everywhere, including but limited to the practical ones. He described in minute detail the methods of torture he would use for a confession and do so with the intent that the revolution against our secularist overlords start sometime this evening.

Or, rather, that seems to be the version that I pick up from Loftus. Before actually thinking that he should have read the tags and ignored Jim, he attacked Jim personally. Tom has waded in, noting,

When Loftus put out his collection ‘The Christian Delusion’ and Dawkin’s put out ‘The God Delusion’ and when atheists sent banners to be flown over the beaches on the 4th of July weekend, what are these but deliberate attempts to provoke the religious communities in this country?  Jim West is just as guilty when it comes to provoking atheists, but that is precisely the point, isn’t it?  In context, lots of things are said on TV or on the radio or in movies which, out of context, would be considered hate speech and provocation.  But they are said within a context and those who get the context understand the humor.  Those like John Loftus, who seems to have a very rocky relationship with Jim, are of course going to read it as something depraved and disturbing.   But John says some rather depraved things as well about the status of Christians and Christianity as a whole.

Well, Tom’s correct. Both sides seem to like to provoke. On the biblioblogosphere, sometimes, a lot of times, that has to do with hits, and yet, Jim wasn’t trying to provoke John, just everyone. I note that John has a history of blowing things up which he admitted here, a page which has since been removed when I pointed it out to him once before. He has even gone so far as to say that someone would beat his wife:

In Paul Manata’s case I got pretty upset with him based upon his violent past and predicted he’d probably beat his wife someday,…

Mark my words, Paul, you will beat your wife when she disagrees with you in the future. If I were her I would be scared to marry you. But I’ll never know if what I predict will happen, and I hope it doesn’t. But it will, even as a Christian. And when it does, remember who is was who told you (the truth) that you would do it. And then reflect back on the conversion experience you’ve had and how it changed your life.

James McGrath is hoping for cooler heads, but I doubt that is possible, especially given the dialogue already present. I do note from the dialogue there that Tom has said that John needs to grow a thicker skin. John, well in the past when he wasn’t focused on getting Jim removed from the Biblioblogging list, agreed,

The bottom line for me is that I have to develop thicker skin. I need to ignore the taunts, the ridicule, and the belittling that Christians do out there. I have to understand that they feel personally attacked by the simple fact that this very blog exists. If I can keep my head above water here, I’ll do okay. I plan on doing much better about this from now on. I’ll try not to miss that daily shower again! 😉

John responded with his usual wit by calling Tom a name. As I noted above, John has previous admitted that he has no problem attacked, even in a deceptive way. He often fills provoked. He is angry. But as he said, he needs to grow a thicker skin.

There have been a very few times that I have dialogued with John via email. I think that he and I would agree on several issues, but in this, I think he is using it as a cover to attack Jim.

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9 Replies to “John Loftus v. Jim West 2011”

  1. Ya know, I just noticed something Joel. None of your posts make it on the top ten Biblioblogger Reference Library.

    Why is that?

    You’re days are numbered my friend. 😉

    You’ll be begging me to link to you from now on, now that we have an accurate ranking list.

    Totally unexpected, eh?

    It’s what I suspected all along.

    Cheers

    1. John, that’s because so many people are concerned for your soul that they are visiting you as part of their penance so they dont spend an eternity in he’ll. 😉

  2. Joel, just a heads up. Just as if you were riding a bicycle and I was driving a car, I just sped past you in hits leaving you forever in the dust. 😉

    I hope this puts an end to the influence of Jim West who always refers to atheists as “angry atheists.” It’s like he lives in a cave.

    1. “I hope this puts an end to the influence of Jim West . . . It’s like he lives in a cave.”

      Ssssh . . . Joel won’t tolerate criticism of his friend Jim West on this blog.

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