How Ken Ham and other YEC Apologists are making Atheists

A few months ago, the Barna Group released a study which indicated that one of the reasons for the decline of the American Church is its perceived stance on science, notably, because of the likes of Ken Ham. For some reason, Ham doesn’t like to take credit for these numbers, but will look at Europe and bemoan its spiritual state, blaming it on the rise of belief in Evolution while noting that there is a rise of believe in YEC in the U.S. Anyway, read this post about a former fundamentalist baptist pastor who lost his faith… take a gander as to what helped him…

How I Answered Science Questions | Fallen From Grace.

Ham notes on his facebook page about this author, “that he probably was not taught apologetics.” Yes, because “apologetics” is what trumps all things. Apologetics is not about searching for the Truth of the matter, but about circling the wagons and making sure that you consider only your own view as correct, at least for Ham.

So many issues here… so many.

 

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19 Replies to “How Ken Ham and other YEC Apologists are making Atheists”

  1. I think Ham and other YEC believers must shoulder the blame for much of the ridicule the church gets from scientists and the secular world. Thanks for your commentary and insights.

  2. Joel,

    Are you at all familiar with the concept of spurious correlation? Ken Ham is corret to note that an acceptance of long ages, microbes-to-man evolutionism and liberal theology that treats the Bible as a human book rather than as divine revelation caused Europe to come to its present state of apostasy. Want proof? Look at Europe’s churches: they overwhelmingly accept these things and yet Christendom is dying there, churches are closing and there’s no denying it. Meanwhile, USAmerica still has a largely Christian populace and surveys confirm that we largely affirm the historical Genesis account of origins; while we are losing people, particularly young people, they are not leaving because of Young Earth Creationism. Rather they are leaviung because they are given an uncritical, one-sided indoctrination into evolution as scientific fact in government schools and reject Christianity because they accept the things they are taught in science and history classes. Unlike you and the rest of the Old Earthers and theistic evolutionists out there, these youngsters realize that holding the all-natural claims of scientists in some areas while arbitrarily denying them in others [the Virgin birth, the resurrection, miracles in the Bible, Bible prophecy, eternal consequences, etc] for the sake of theology is contradictory, making your compromise creationism utterly invalid. When America finally succumbs to the advice of useful idiots like BioLogos and those who’ve signed the Clergy Letter Project, America will follow Europe into apostasy.

    Think about it,
    Rev Tony Breeden
    DefGen.org

    1. Howdy pot… you say I’m black? odd…

      Yes, I am familiar with SC, which is what YECers do all the time, especially with the situation in Europe. Or with equating rock and roll and a wild youth with “Darwinism.” A reverse of that would be that as YECerism increased, the Church would increased, and yet, we see that in the U.S., as YECers increases, the Church is actually decreasing… but that would mean that you guys would have to be wrong… Oh, and you guys would have to accept actual facts… such as that young people are leaving because YECers is simply, stupid, and given that God has given us human wisdom and reason, to ask us to deny God’s gifts is in effect creating a paradox that many cannot over come and remain in reality.

      Also, SC is generally what your ‘science’ is built upon, not to mention your take on theology as relating to what you think Christ and others said/were saying.

      BY the way, along with SC, you guys are great with straw men….

      Oh, and Biologos is a Christian Organization with Christian men and women. You may call wish to all your sisters and brothers in Christ names and thus pull out one more thing in Scripture you don’t follow…

      I’m praying for you that you come out of the cult.

      1. Joel,

        Where in the world did you get the idea that YEC is spreading? According to Gallup, belief in Biblical creationism has dropped from 44% in 1982 to 40% in 2010. Belief in theistic evolution has remained steady at 38%, but belief in unguided evolution in which God had no part in the process has risen from 9% in 1982 to 16% in 2010 [src: http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/Evolution-Creationism-Intelligent-Design.aspx%5D.This means that your belief that YEC is on the rise and is therefore the cause of the rise in unbelief in our children is demonstrably false.

        Think about it,
        Rev Tony Breeden
        DefGen.org

          1. Joel,

            You might want to take your own advice…

            Your first link refers to the Gallup poll I linked to as well as a Pew Research poll, noting that if any figures are on the rise, it is the percentage of those who believe in undirected evolution.

            Your link to a poll on clergy beliefs you provide in your own article likewise mentions the Gallup poll at the end of the article; it should be noted that the clergy beliefs cited by that LifeWay survey on CNN may or may not be representative of over-all beliefs within Protestantism.

            Your third link is to a one-time CBS poll that may or may not be representative; in fact, their poll results were wildly out-of-step with other polls taken that year, including Gallup, so it is not unwarranted to suggest that their survey is not representative.

            Likewise, your fourth link cites a one-time Fox News poll which likewise may not be representative of the entire US population. [Even if it were, it would show only a slight rise in YEC belief [44% in 1982’s Gallup poll compared to 45% at present] compared to unguided evolutionary belief [9% in 1982’s Gallup poll to 21% at present].

            Your 5th link [you again] cites the Gallup poll results and then notes the Fox News results cited by your 4th source.

            Here’s the rub: None of these polls say that YEC is on the rise. With the exception of the Gallup survey, each was a one-time poll with differing survey methods than the others, so you were comparing apples to oranges. Only the Gallup survey allows us to look at a trend over time using the same survey methods. If you look at the Gallup poll results, which shows how belief trends over decades, you see that YEC belief does not trend much in one way or the other, though it has lost 4 points since 1982 overall. Likewise, theistic evolutionary belief remains rather static. Meanwhile, unguided evolutionary belief is undeniably trending upwards.

            So again, your conclusion is not supported by the data.

            Think about it,
            Rev Tony Breeden
            DefGen.org

          2. I love the “may or may not be representative.” You like to dismiss facts that do not go with your opinion, don’t you?

            Do you realize how polls are conducted? They do not actually tap the entire population. Gallup, I believe, only tapped 1000 people. You do realize that by your own words, Gallup’s findings is rather flimsy, right?

          3. I found this site by searching for Ken Ham books and DVD’s that I will be using to teach my kids about Creation (homeschooled). I wanted to know what what YEC was. I did not even know that the theology of God Creation in the form of evolution was out there. I am not a going to spend my time researching your ideas and do not know how you come to them, but as I read this blog I first noticed that you have an inflamed tone, most of your sources are from liberal websites and you are putting God in a box. I always run away from those that put God in a box. What I believe is that the Bible is the literal Word of God and that today’s Christian are constantly trying to explain things away. It is just an attempt to bring us up and Him down. Well, I think God says what he means and means what He says. We just have to put all of the pieces together ourselves according to His Word, not science. God is outside of sience, even though it is great that he gave us the knowledge and desire to take things apart and put them back together in various orders. Being an engineer I am always amazed at the things we as humans have the capability of doing. However, I try to never look to myself (humankind) for the answers, only to the Bible. I am not going to defend either of you nor argue your cases, but I am going to say. If the Bible does not say it, then with your human mind be careful not to put much faith in it, least you do not trust on His understanding. Man is evil and everything we do on our own is evil. Don’t put God in a Box, believe only upon His Word. Those who try to teach others are doubley accountable to God.

            I am not interested in returning here, but what I see hapening here is a frightening thing.

            Michael Jones
            Geospaitial Engineer (Not a Scientist)

          4. In other words… you really don’t want to know anything, you accuse others of doing EXACTLY what you are doing yourself, and you have no clue as to the God of Scripture

          5. Ah yes, there is that tone again, I will pray for you, that you grow in Spirit and in Truth in the way you communicate with other Christians and that in doing so you become a light to others on how we shall live as Jesus would.

          6. Wait… you said you weren’t interested in returning here and yet… you subscribed to the emails?

            Further, have you noticed your tone? Nothing but attacks along with the refusal to learn anything about the position which others advocate… ummm… sounds to me like you really don’t know what you are talking about when you use words like Jesus and Christian

          7. Joel,

            The email is required to leave a comment, I guess you did not know. There is no way to “subscribe” to emails that I know of. I feel that any discussion is an attack to you just from reading how you interact with other commentators. I don’t think anyone likes to be made fun of “you really don’t want to know anything”, “you have no clue as to the God of Scripture”. In fact this is not discussion, it is just lashing out with you this, you that, you you you. Not very productive. I hope you find peace.

            Michael

          8. Michael, an email is required, but so is the check in the subscription box.

            Actually, since I left YEC, KVOism, and the other -isms associated with conservative “Christianity”, I have found peace.

  3. I can’t wait for apostasy to get here. 🙂

    The movement I grew up in, and pastored in, for many years was young earth creationist to the core. We were literalists that believed the Bible, in its English translation, was inerrant. These were churches the Right Reverend Breeden would have fellowshiped with. Fast forward to today. Where are these churches now? Many of them are closed up and those that are not are much, much smaller. I attended one of the largest churches in America in the 1970’s. Today? A for sale sign sits in front of it. They stayed true to the theology of Tony Breeden to the end…….They refused to adapt. They refused to embrace anything new. Inm their mind……it was the faith ONCE delivered to the saints. No further changes, adaptations, corrections, or adjustments needed.

    1. Bruce, amen.

      I grew up in the same type of mind set. It was KJVO, YEC, End Times theology which corrupted the very soul. It, frankly, corrupted me until I woke up and saw the damage that these doctrines did. My story is scattered throughout this blog, which I have in part dedicated to fighting these ugly doctrines now.

  4. Hey Joel,

    Let the Godless atheist say it in his tone… Hey Michael, In other words… you really don’t want to know anything, you accuse others of doing EXACTLY what you are doing yourself, and you have no clue as to the God of Scripture

    As I read Michael’s commment about God and boxes I had to laugh. A YEC talking about boxes. There is an oxymoron if i ever saw one.

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