Follow-up on Predestination and Universalism

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I posted this on Monday. George has some great thoughts, as does the arch-heretic and failed debater (I mean, he lost against that guy?) and, well, you have to give it to him, at least Rodney tried to play with the rest of us, on our level. Well, he tried. I’ll just leave it at that.

No I won’t.

Rodney postulates that Universalism is automatically wrong because it ‘separate(s) God’s love from God’s justice’. The issue with that is, is that the holy and Just God who is Love provides no separation between the two. God’s Justice and Love is never separate. For example,

And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as his children? He said, “My child, don’t make light of the LORD’s discipline, and don’t give up when he corrects you. For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.” As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father? If God doesn’t discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children at all. (Heb 12:5-8 NLT)

God’s Justice is God’s Love, and the so on. The problem with Rodney (well, one of many, many, many problems, which really are too many to continuously blog on, but if I did, I wouldn’t run out of blog posts for like a decade or more) is that Rodney himself separates the love of God from God’s justice. This is what Gregory was speaking too – that God’s nature, which is Love, excludes the possibility that’s God’s actions, Justice, would be foreign to one another. In God’s action, He will punish those who reject Him, but because of God’s love, He has reconciled the world (unless Rodney wants to tell me who isn’t in the world) to Himself through His Great Love.

For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!” For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. (2Co 5:19-21 NLT)

For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ’s blood on the cross. (Col 1:19-20 NLT)

If God has reconciled to Himself the world through Christ, which is action and love together, who is Rodney then to drive a wedge between God’s love and justice?

This is not about forcing anything on anyone, no more than Adam’s sin was ‘forced’ upon the world (is the blood of Christ not more powerful than the sin of Adam?) or the election of Israel or the election of the Church?

Let God be God, Rodney – He is sovereign and doesn’t need our help.

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7 Replies to “Follow-up on Predestination and Universalism”

  1. Wow, Joel, if someone has miscontrued any arguments I’ve done, it would have to be you.

    Not only do none of the passages have to do with anything I have argued (I mean, unless the NLt says they do, then I understand where you are coming from), you have no evidence that I separate God’s love from God’s justice (what universalists do). Bless your West Virginian soul. Keep trying.

      1. Joel,

        I have posted on hell, but let me put it like this; hell is the *experience” the unjust will feel at the new creation. That way, to be consistent with Jesus in John telling of the resurrection of the just and unjust, that sure, everyone will be resurrected, but not all will be justified or gain new bodies (1st Cor 15). That is basically my view, which in turn, rejects annihilationism.

        1. SO in other words, you are a universalist as well where everyone will be raised, but those who were purged here will be in the city and those who do not will be outside the city?

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