10 Comments

  1. Seroled

    Hey there Joel!

    When i read 48.1-10 of Enoch, i thought the same ‘ Annihilation ‘ No eternal suffering – they just cease to exist! Instantly the words of Jesus in Matt 10.28 came to mind.

    I know that you have a different take on the book of Revelation. It seems to me that ONLY those who received the ” mark ” suffer internal torment in the lake of fire ( Rev 14:9-11). All others who’s names are not written in the book of life are destroyed body and soul, when cast into Gehenna (Rev 20:15). Perhaps Enoch 100.7-9 is describing the fate of these alone.

    To your question

    What if ‘ Recompense ‘ here, is of God, and to those who persecute and kill believers, who willingly allow themselves to suffer and to be slain for his word? Rev 6:9 and 2 Thessalonians 1:6

    ” For some of them are written and inscribed above in the heaven, in order that the angels may read them and know that which shall befall the sinners,and the spirits of the humble, and of those who have afflicted their bodies, and been recompensed (1EN 108:4-7 OTP) ”

    Seroled

    Reply
    1. Seroled

      Joel,

      Enoch 10:11-14 and Jude 1:6 seem to speak of the same angels. 2 Peter 2:4,5 speaks of those who perished in the Deluge. These people could have been bound together with the angels and kept ONLY until the day of judgment, then destroyed body and soul in Gehenna.

      ” And to Michael he said: “Go and reveal to Semiaza and to those remaining with him who have mixed with the women, to defile themselves in their uncleanness.

      “And when their sons will slay (one another) and they see the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth until the day of their judgment and consummation, until the judgment of the age of eternity is completed. Then they will be lead away into the chasm of fire and to the torture and to the prison of eternal confinement. And whoever will be burned up and destroyed from the present, they will be bound with them together until the end of the generation. (1EN 10:11-14 OPE)

      Joel, I do not think that one has to be a YEC ; ) they may have to be a Preterist though, to consider whether or not 70 generations – 40 years per generation, could have passed between the time of the writings of Enoch, and the consummation and judgment ” until the end of the generation”

      Jesus said that everlasting fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Satan, his angels, the beast, the false prophet, and all who received the ” mark” were thrown into Gehenna, and will be tormented day and night, without rest, forever.

      Btw: is ‘ generation ‘ and ‘ age ‘ sometimes used interchangeably in scripture?

      Seroled

      Reply

      1. I would have to get the Greek behind the two, but for the most part, I think that they are interchangable. I think that Christ was speaking about the end of the generation/age which ended with the inauguration of the new kingdom. Also, I think that Rev 14.11 (?) needs to be re-examined in that I don’t think John is meaning forever (Greek is different than other forever verses).

        I’m sorta a Preterist in that I believe that Revelation has happened already up to a certain point 😉

        Reply
        1. Seroled

          Thanks for the info Joel,

          I haven’t read Enoch in a while, your post has prompted me to pick up again :)

          Seroled

          Reply

          1. I have another one planned for next week, although plans may change! I like Enoch and find it interesting on numerous levels! Of course, I wouldn’t go so far as others and add it to the Canon, but if I had to choose a book ot add to the canon, it would be the Psalms of Solomon


  2. I’ve always wondered why, if we believe that eternal life was only for those in Eden, why we believe that those “outside eden” will also have an eternal “non life”. It doesnt make sense.

    Reply
  3. Seroled

    Joel, I would choose add Sirach to the Canon.I Love that book!

    Seroled

    Reply
  4. Andrew

    Why was 1 Enoch left out of the NT canon (except Abyssinian)? The writer of Jude used it and it has several significant parallels to the mental landscape of the NT.

    Reply

    1. Tertullian used it alot as well.

      It would have been included in the Old Testament, actually. The Jews had dispensed with it, among other books which the NT writers had made use of, and early Christians as well. Melito of Sardis, 2nd Century, suggested that we go back to the Jewish Canon, even the Hebrew original. Jerome picked this up later.

      As far as people dispensing with it today, if they do, they are silly. Enoch provides us with evidences of the development of the Son of Man from a time before Christ.

      Reply

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