Tag Archives: quiverfull

Dear Duggar Family Children

Stained glass at St John the Baptist's Anglica...
Stained glass at St John the Baptist’s Anglican Church ” (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Dear Duggar Family Children.

This is for Jana Maria, John-David, Jill Michelle, Jessa Lauren, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah,  Joy-Anna, Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn-Grace, and Josie. Even you, Josh. This is for you when you finally leave your home, in thought and in deed.

I want to welcome you to a world that is far brighter than you’ve led to believe it is. I want to welcome you to a chance to truly experience all of God’s creation, as something more than sex objects, as something more than husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, baby-sitters, and anything else that you were told you could only be. No doubt, you are going to be afraid.

Then you are going to be mad at your parents, at yourselves, at each other, and finally at God. As someone who has escaped a cult, let me tell you now: you are absolutely right to feel every bad thought you are feeling right now. The pain is real. Even if no one can see it, it is real and maybe even more real than if you had just been torn asunder. Your entire world is breaking down and you simply have no one left to turn to you give you the firm assurance you once had. If someone promises to restore to you a black and white world, don’t believe them. Find someone though, whether it is a real counselor, a priest, a pastor, a friend — find someone who will listen.

If you are reading this, you are now “free” of Quiverfull and a host of other systems imprisoning you. In truth, as I have learned, you will never be truly free of things that have happened to you or that you have done to others. Don’t worry. I understand that. Do not let anyone judge you for this, especially yourself. You can be your own worst critic. And you should be, but don’t believe everything you tell yourself. To be honest, it wasn’t your fault. You were trained to think and believe and act a certain way. You couldn’t have left if you tried. You are only now leaving because your psyche cannot handle any more walls and mental gymnastics between what you know and what you see. It is exhausting to continue to build those walls up. At one time, you had help. Your parents and church elders helped to reinforce those walls. But they are gone. They may return, but they will never return to a place that allows you to go back from whence you came.

You are going to be mad at God. You may reject Christianity. I don’t blame you. I did myself, really. What you are told is Christianity is not Christianity, I assure you, but you will have to decide that for yourself. Right now, don’t give up on believing in God. Just because the God of Quiverfull and your parents may not be in the box you were given, don’t mean God does not exist. In fact, I found out — like many before me — that God can never fit into a box. If you find someone who tells you they have God all figured out, don’t believe them. There is no answer, proof, or concept of God that is healthy to have for too long. If, in the end, you reject Christianity altogether, and even the concept of a deity, I don’t blame you. No one can because everything done to you was done in the name of the Christian God.

For me, I choose to believe in God because I cannot believe in a world of this much evil without a deity as the redeemer. I have to believe that life matters because I have seen real beauty. I believe in orthodox Christianity because theology is a theory and as a theory, I find orthodox Christianity the best of all worlds, one where God became human so that we could become divine. Only orthodox Christianity provides for me the love of a God that I believe this world needs… that I need.

But, as a friendly piece of advice from someone who grew up with a god much like you did, God is far better and more real than what you have been given in that box of yours.

You aren’t going to be fine. You are going to be different. You are going to be a different person because there is simply no other way you can exist as the person you were before. You will have the same name, experiences, friends and family (if you choose to have the last two, that is). Yet, you will see them differently. You will see them almost like they exist in a movie. But, they will be real to you. The foods won’t taste the same. The clothes won’t feel the same. You will get squeamish when people pray, joke, or attempt to understand what you are going through. This is part of the new life you have now. It is not easy, but it is worth it.

A couple of words of advice.

  • Get into a real counseling program. Whatever state you land in, find a licensed counselor through that State. Go. Go as often as you want.  Be honest with your counselor about everything you are feeling.
  • Breathe. You are exhausted. You will remain exhausted for a long time. You will be depressed. Find a real way to handle this.
  • Don’t rush. You can’t rush this. If you do, you will find that you have established more walls, but that this time they block out other stuff, like getting the help you need.
  • Take the ruin and the ashes around you and salvage the good, discard the bad, and rebuild.
  • Never think this is easy. You have come from a cult. Many of you were physically harmed, some sexually harmed, and all of you emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually harmed in this. Some of you are in a part of your lifespan where maturity has set in. That means you have learned certain things that you will have to first fight to unlearn and then attempt to learn a better way. This is just not going to be easy, but if you decide it is worth it, you will make it.
  • Don’t be afraid to be by yourself. But, try to be near to people who love you — they usually won’t understand you — and will care for you. You need more than bodily care; you need soul care.

Whatever brought you to this point, you are here now. You will not return. Stay with us and let us help you. Many of us have been where you are right now, coming from a cult and into a world that we are not ready for — a world we do not want. Yet, we have made it. You will too.

— Joel.

The Logical Conclusion to the Problem of Masculine Christianity

I’m telling you, there’s a lot of weak vessels, silly women, out there, who ungodly men lie in wait for. Am I controlling for keeping my woman away from these evil men? Then so be it. Yes, I am in control, but I love my woman enough to grant her freedom of thought and expression. She is as intelligent as I am, but still the weaker vessel, due to her willingness to surrender and submit to a man who takes charge. Ask yourself, how many men adopt the interests and beliefs of their wives? None. How many women adopts the interests and beliefs of their husbands? They are in abundance. It is clear that a woman submits to a man who rules her, even to the point of abuse, I’m sad to say. Therefore a Christian man is told to love his woman as himself. What man would abuse himself? He may abuse drugs or alcohol but not himself.

via here.

This is, of course, following on the with the conversation from last week…

This could be Poe’s Law, but it’s not. Quiverfull is real movement…

I can’t wait until some guy buys my daughters – Quiverfull

As Bible-believing Baptists who hold to reformed theology, X and I believe that God is sovereign in choosing who will or will not believe in him, having chosen his people before the foundation of the world (see Ephesians 1), and that his selection is unbreakable and irresistible. If marriage is to mirror this principle, we believe that a woman has no right to select a husband for herself, but that she is to be chosen by a man and marriage is to be an unbreakable arrangement between the man and her father. Based on this reasoning, we have shunned a standard proposal and wedding ceremony, because if I had asked her to marry me (which I did not) then I would have given her the decision to marry me rather than selecting her and taking her myself. Furthermore, if we had exchanged conventional marriage vows, our union would have been based on X’s will and consent, which are not Biblical factors for marriage or salvation. Instead, I asked X’s father for his blessing in taking her hand in marriage. When he gave his blessing, X and I considered ourselves to be unbreakably betrothed in the sight of God. While we had initially intended to consummate our marriage after today’s symbolic ceremony, we instead did so secretly after private scripture reading, prayer, and mutual foot-washing.

As far fetched as that sounds, Vyckie Garrison has more statements made by those who are looking for a more ‘biblical marriage.’ Honestly, this is destructive not just to the women, but to the men as well. I could go on, but I won’t. Take a read and try to understand what “plain reading” and “literalis,” can lead too. Try to understand how by not speaking up, these people become the voice of Christianity.

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Bene Diction takes on Quiverfull

Recently, during private conversations, I believe that I have identified two separate understandings/movements of Quiverfull. One supports large families, and acknowledges that it is not for everyone, seeing it as a call. Further, this group are interspersed among various denominations and congregations.The husband-wife relationship is not a master-slave relationship, but a Traditional understanding of family headship.

The second group are better called the Patriarchal Quiverers which has an extreme view of the husband-wife relationship, and extreme view of the intrusion of society (such as medicine), and an extreme few of large families – taking literal the charge in Timothy about child-bearing.

Maybe I am wrong. Anyway,  Bene Diction Blogs On on this subject

Quiverfull? Full of Kids, at least: Duggers to have 19th child

I didn’t know if I wanted to post this or not, but since it does have something to do with religion, I figured I might. (I always enjoy a good conversation.)  While speaking with our midwife the other day, she informed us of the dangers of this many children (no, 3 should be about enough for us). Some of the extreme dangers of Quiverfull, which is a movement located generally in the United States, include death to the mothers – but there are also extreme views on the relationships between the husband and wife.

I have watched, a little, of the Duggers on TLC, and have not see the extreme views of what other women in this movement have described, but it is still disconcerting, at least for my wife and I, to learn of the dangers of this many childbirths.

What say ye?

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