And it comes from Mark Driscoll who is speaking at the Catalyst Conference:
So… um… yeah…
And it comes from Mark Driscoll who is speaking at the Catalyst Conference:
So… um… yeah…
Mark Driscoll is a menace to the name of Christ… This is Mark, the pastor who suggests women should perform sexual acts on their husbands to save them, who equates most things except ultimate fighting with homosexuality, and is a known spiritual abuser.
To be honest – I don’t want to know the god Driscoll knows nor the bible Driscoll reads.
Why, he starts to blog (because twitter is a miniblog platform) about how wasteful bloggers are:.
I guess theologians/authors/bloggers like Rachel Held Evans must really be getting to him….
Here’s the thing… We are told to use our talents for the Kingdom. Guess Mark doesn’t believe that…
And you know know… nothing I say will matter anyway. This is one of the more ignorant statements made by Mark… and all one has to do is to post a picture of it to see just how stupid it is…
First, Mark Driscoll complains about teaching about Esther… a woman whom he calls a whore, but delights in the fact that she allows the men to make the decisions in her life. Notice that this goes together, even in psychology. Anyway… Driscoll is reading Esther as badly as he does Song of Solomon and teaching others how to do it.
I’m beginning to think his teaching expertise is about as real as Davy-Tee’s “doctorate,” but I digress.
Driscoll removes Esther from her “time” and puts her into his frame of mind – that of an agnostic woman with loose morals who has one saving grace – submitting to every man who comes along and knowing how to please her husband.
This is sick, no doubt, and wrong.
Rachel Held Evans has since responded. Good, I guess, but I am beginning to tire of responding to Marky Mark’s funky bunch, at least directly. In speaking with “Lightning” Rod today, I suggested a method of response he has used in the past – to speak past the opponent in such a way as to answer their garbage. Such as… instead of linking to Mark or mentioning his name, posting positively.
A little mimeticly, if you will.
I am not denying Scripture’s use of human experiences, including sex and sexual situations hot enough to make a stripper blush, but the reason I suggest Driscoll sees it as soft porn because he sees it as a sexual release filled with sex for sex’s sake, and only for the male. No story line, just S & M sex. Driscoll sees only fantasy…
“Mark started the meeting by telling us he was convinced that I had demons,” says Amy, “and then he went on to add that my demons were ‘sexual demons’.”
You need to read the entire story. Matthew Turner is to be commended, and if ever challenged legally, supported by us.
Mark Driscoll is a man ate up with control issues and is focused on what he assumes is sexual deviance.
Let us pray that when the camel’s back breaks, that those around him will find healing, that those caused hurt by him will not rejoice at his downfall, and that he will make his way back to a better vision of God.
Acts 29 Network cofounder Pastor Mark Driscoll has stepped down from the reins of the successful global church planting organization to make room for Pastor Matt Chandler as president, it was announced Wednesday.
Later in the day, in another major move by Driscoll, the Gospel Coalition announced that they had received a letter of his resignation as a council member. A change in priorities was the reason given by Driscoll who plans to devote more time to his growing church.
If you read the story, it seems like it is because Acts 29 didn’t want to do what Mark said… never would have thought that Mark couldn’t handle people not listening to him.
I could post quotes from Pat Robertson all day, but this is the last one…
All of that and more vs this:
And, perhaps the best image of ‘feminine’ Christianity is from the Women of Liberia Mass Action which ended a bloody civil war…
Leymah Gbowee and Comfort Freeman, presidents of two different Lutheran churches, organized the Women in Peacebuilding Network (WIPNET), and issued a statement of intent: “In the past we were silent, but after being killed, raped, dehumanized, and infected with diseases, and watching our children and families destroyed, war has taught us that the future lies in saying NO to violence and YES to peace! We will not relent until peace prevails.” 
Asatu Bah Kenneth, Assistant Minister for Administration and Public Safety of the Liberian Ministry of Justice, was president of the Liberia Female Law Enforcement Association at the time. Inspired by the work of the Christian women’s peace initiative, she formed the Liberian Muslim Women’s Organization to work for peace.
Together, Gbowee and Kenneth brought both groups together to form the Mass Action, a rare thing to happen in Liberia. Since they were brought together, relations have been less tense and more open between Christians and Muslims in Liberia, specifically Monrovia.
The Christian and Muslim women joined forces to create Women of Liberia Mass Action for Peace. They wore white, to symbolize peace.
The point of this post is that when Driscoll starts talking about gender and people start pushing back there is a lot of stuff that starts flying around: Agentic motives, gender role interests, educational fissures, power and misogyny. It all blends together in a conversational stew ostensibly about “real guys.” And if we are not clear about what we are talking about we talk past each other. In favor of Driscoll, our lack of clarity means we miss the important and legitimate points he is making. On the side of Driscoll’s critics, a lack of clarity means we get distracted by trivial issues (e.g., chickified church leaders) and fail to corner the critical issues of male chauvinism and misogyny.
Just read the post.
I’m telling you, there’s a lot of weak vessels, silly women, out there, who ungodly men lie in wait for. Am I controlling for keeping my woman away from these evil men? Then so be it. Yes, I am in control, but I love my woman enough to grant her freedom of thought and expression. She is as intelligent as I am, but still the weaker vessel, due to her willingness to surrender and submit to a man who takes charge. Ask yourself, how many men adopt the interests and beliefs of their wives? None. How many women adopts the interests and beliefs of their husbands? They are in abundance. It is clear that a woman submits to a man who rules her, even to the point of abuse, I’m sad to say. Therefore a Christian man is told to love his woman as himself. What man would abuse himself? He may abuse drugs or alcohol but not himself.
This is, of course, following on the with the conversation from last week…
This could be Poe’s Law, but it’s not. Quiverfull is real movement…
1. A masculine ministry believes that it is more fitting that men take the lash of criticism that must come in a public ministry, than to unnecessarily expose women to this assault.
2. A masculine ministry seizes on full-orbed, biblical doctrine with a view to teaching it to the church and pressing it with courage into the lives of the people.
3. A masculine ministry brings out the more rugged aspects of the Christian life and presses them on the conscience of the church with a demeanor that accords with their proportion in Scripture.
4. A masculine ministry takes up heavy and painful realities in the Bible, and puts them forward to those who may not want to hear them.
5. A masculine ministry heralds the truth of Scripture, with urgency and forcefulness and penetrating conviction, to the world and in the regular worship services of the church.
6. A masculine ministry welcomes the challenges and costs of strong, courageous leadership without complaint or self-pity with a view to putting in place principles and structures and plans and people to carry a whole church into joyful fruitfulness.
7. A masculine ministry publicly and privately advocates for the vital and manifold ministries of women in the life and mission of the church.
8. A masculine ministry models for the church the protection, nourishing, and cherishing of a wife and children as part of the high calling of leadership.
There is so many things wrong here. For one, where are the validity of women as women and not as a wife or mother? I mean, sure, there is the denial of the aspect of Wisdom in the Divine, something I’ve covered before. And yes, I named my daughter after Jesus… Sophia.
Further, there is the notion that a non-masculine ministry will not uphold Scripture and conviction (point 5). Really? Ignoring the fact that Piper believes he is right on these matters, how would a more feminine Christianity (anyone find it ironic that Israel and the Church have been called the Bride of YHWH/Christ, meaning that it should be by nature feminine?) not do those things? Further, I guess women couldn’t preach that people are depraved (point 4) because they would be too busy teaching Grace. This makes women seem weak, misinformed and only good for being a wife and a mother, which, of course, seems to involve predominantly sex. Odd that Mark Driscoll teaches so much about sex, ain’t it? While some will take issue with the idea of an God who is Male-and-Female, I note the role of Wisdom and Logos in the Divine as well as Genesis 1 and that particular passage in Galatians.
I have two daughters and a son and all will be valued in Church, in the Body of Christ, in the Bride of Christ for what they do, not for the body parts they were born with.
I agree that a biblical marriage would lead to a happy marriage, but of course what actually constitutes a ‘biblical’ marriage? Our friend in need, Mark Driscoll, notes:
Men who lovingly and biblically lead their homes have considerably better marriages and families.
He quotes a lot from a source which he deems friendly to his statements made on that blog post. I would disagree with him – no shocker, right?
First, I submit this post:
Promoting healthy marriages will require that churches look beyond their limited and somewhat biased understanding of how marriages should function and discover how healthy marriages really function in our society. Professionals who work within the field of marriage and family therapy, sociologists, researchers, and demographers provide this necessary insight and empirical research data.
Dr. Howard Clinebell, Professor Emeritus of Pastoral Psychology and Counseling, Claremont School of Theology and author of Basic Types of Pastoral Care & Counseling, characterizes a healthy marriage as one evidenced by mutual care and support that allows for the growth and fulfillment of each person’s God-given potentialities. Clinebell writes in 1984 that based on personal experience he and his wife, Dr. Charlotte Ellen, “can attest to the fact that an egalitarian marriage is potentially more fulfilling for the woman and the man.” Conversely, sexism Clinebell states, “is a central cause of diminished and destructive marriages.”
Second, there is a recently released study, and I quote it with some mild trepidation, that the more equal the marriage, the better the marriage is, all the way around. As a matter of fact, it shows:
Feminism has actually been great for marriage. People in egalitarian marriages are happier than those who aren’t; they also have more sex. Couples who marry later have significantly lower divorce rates — the chance of divorce decreases every year a woman delays marriage, and the most stable marriages occur after the woman is 35. “Today, men rank intelligence and education way above cooking and housekeeping as a desirable trait in a partner.” Educated, high-earning women have the lowest divorce rates. So while I don’t discount the feelings of women who call into Dennis Prager’s radio show, the actual statistics tell a very different story….
….Also, equal marriages are happier marriages, and equal marriages tend to be more stable. Oh and men tend to be happier than women in marriages. Perhaps it’s true that Manly Men aren’t getting married as often as they once were — it’s hard to find statistics on Manly Man alone. Maybe women are less interested (and less obligated) to marry men who treat them like domestic servants rather than partners. As Amanda points out, far fewer women kill their husbands today than they did 30 years ago — that is perhaps indicative of the fact that women have more options to escape abusive relationships than they used to, and it’s less common for a woman to feel that she has no option other than to murder her abuser…..
I guess, we could look at it relatively. Better than what? What is ‘biblical?’ For me, Men who participate in their marriages according to Ephesians, in such a way as to submit one to another, will be happier. Evidence, we have it.
Plus, since Mark is all about sex, it seems to be more plentiful and better in a marriage where husbands and wife are more equal.
Frankly, a good marriage is built on love, respect, trust, communication, and work.