1. Yeshua the Lord of Glory

    Hi P.

    I think that i might like this Irenaeus fellow…

    For God did not stand in need of these [beings], in order to the accomplishing of what He had Himself determined with Himself beforehand should be done, as if He did not possess His own hands.


    For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, “Let Us make man after Our image and likeness;

    Further, the bishop of Lyons said,

    And this is He of whom the Scripture says, “And God formed man, taking clay of the earth, and breathed into his face the breath of life.” It was not angels, therefore, who made us, nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor any one else, except the Word of the Lord, nor any Power remotely distant from the Father of all things.

    Man Alive!I cant wait to get “back” to church! I may have to move to West Virginia P!


  2. Joel,

    Interesting…?  But, it is not really what Irenaeus and Theophilus said or felt, Jewish personification or anthromorphic, etc. But the real question is always the Text…Scripture! And I can find not one Judeo-Christian text that uses the reality of “distinct emanations” of God!

    The fact that God cannot reveal His “economy” without also still being His own ontology (being & substance) is the Immutability of God, both One & Triune. We must always make the explicit attempt to combine the static with the dynamic, to preserve the category of state while being open to that of event in God. But we too must aviod the rationalism of an essentialist ontology not by giving priority to the idea of ‘process’ (emanate), but rather by retaining the full ontological of God.

    Fr. Robert +++


  3. I like the early Fathers, although they have been coopted by others. Once I started studying them, I had to abandon the classic oneness creed that God was the Father in Creation, the Son in Redemption, and the Spirit in Regeneration. I find great strength in those men of old, and great truth in their understanding of the Apostle’s doctrine. I make it a point to measure my doctrine against those that followed the Apostles. How many times have you heard that a particular doctrine ceased with the Apostles only to be raised up in these last days? But that is simply not true. Christ said that His church would never die out. This is why I continue to study, to show myself approved before God and before men.

    Come on down, YtLoG. We are actually having an old fashioned tent revival in May, the weekend after Mother’s Day, I believe.


  4. Fr. Robert,

    But where do we find Text for distinct hypostaseis?

    Could you further explain this:

    But we too must aviod the rationalism of an essentialist ontology


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