Perry Noble hates you

Or maybe himself. Perry Noble has appropriately named his ministry after himself. (Can you imagine Paul starting his own shop up – Apostle Paul Ministries? Of course, with the trash that Perry is spewing, maybe it is better to not have the name of the Lord associated with it.

You will have to go here for the video, A Little Leaven: Purpose-Driven Hireling.

Below are some statements that I picked out.

(fictional voice) “I want to go to a church where I can know the pastor…(Perry)  “You need to leave. I don’t have time. I love my wife, I love my kids – I don’t have the time – and I will not sacrifice my family on the ministry alter so I can come eat food that I don’t like and hang out with people that make me uncomfortable”.

“If I come to see you in the hospital, y’all know it’s bad. The guy behind me has the bag you’re leaving the room in.”

“Here’s the problem; you think I care.”

The word ‘pastor’ has become a title, a position to be held. The Greek word actually means ‘shepherd,’ calling to mind those that tend a flock, care for them, lead them, and protects them. Perry Noble is a man concerned only with himself, not the flock. He has willingly told his congregation this, but they stick around.

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;  (Ephesians 4:11-13 NKJV)

Joel L. Watts
Joel L. Watts holds a Masters of Arts from United Theological Seminary with a focus in literary and rhetorical criticism of the New Testament. He is currently a Ph.D. student at the University of the Free State, analyzing Paul’s model of atonement in Galatians. He is the author of Mimetic Criticism of the Gospel of Mark: Introduction and Commentary (Wipf and Stock, 2013), a co-editor and contributor to From Fear to Faith: Stories of Hitting Spiritual Walls (Energion, 2013), and Praying in God's Theater, Meditations on the Book of Revelation (Wipf and Stock, 2014).

146 thoughts on “Perry Noble hates you

  1. I was going to perry’s blog site and it hit me that I seen this thing that said “Perry hates you”! I went the Unleash conference today and I believe that you’ve never sit down and heard the rest of the story. You see the reason he does what he does is because he loves Jesus and because he loves Jesus he loves his family. If a lot more ministers would love their family and Jesus as much as they do the church and the ministry then you wouldn’t see so many drop out of the race. Have you ever went to New Spring and met the people? Have you ever went there with an attitude of “God you make my mind up”? Have you ever listened to Perry with a group of pastors? Look your blog doesn’t make me angry, rather, it makes me sad that Christians would spend more time fighting another Christian than the one who is there real enemy. I guess its why most of churches are declining. I usally don’t respond to things like this. But I will say this that I would rather have a pastor who is with his family ever night and setting an example than to have one who thought he was Jesus and that I needed him worst than I needed the real Jesus. I am a pastor and my job is to point people to the good sheperd

  2. What questions? What concerns? No, I have never been, nor will I go. What you need to be asking is what makes a pastor, and maybe even get into the doctrine aspect of it.

  3. Your exactly right! You can’t but some people do! You see some people are dedicated to the church and we are the body! When you dedicate yourself to the body rather than the head you seperate Christ from the Church! Our bodies submit to the thoughts of the head not the hands or the feet! There are people out there who are so consumed with body rather than the head that it’s not even funny. Paul said “wives submit to your husbands as the church is submitted to Christ”. We are one with Christ but the reason so many guys have dropped out of ministry, failed morally, and lost their families is because they were the body and they submitted to themselves rather than Christ. Guys don’t drop out of ministry because they are in love with Jesus they drop out because they are in love with the Church and yes they did seperate Christ from the body. You see this is why I say that you wouldn’t understand Perry if you never sat down and listened to what he said.

  4. One last thought I guarantee you that there are people out there that more energy inot tearing people like Perry Noble down then they do with their own people!!!!!

  5. Jonathan, you seem to think the fruit is quantity. The Christ that Perry is leading people to is a false one, so whether it is 1 or 100,000, the fruit is still rotten

  6. Have you ever met anyone from New Spring? Thats the fruit of that ministry. And because of what GOD is doing in that place there so many stinking people serving the body that it’s not even funny! By the way what’s sad is that the people he sinks his time into is his staff. which is probably bigger than your church!

  7. Your awesome! I told you that people have repented. You have attacked me and the word numbers is used in the NIV thank you very much! Which that’s probably wrong as well. Wow! You were actually wrong about something.
    When someone has acknowledeged “repentance” which I just said and you see them living a changed life and they are the fruit of the ministry then then yeah you just called them ROTTEN! I don’t care how you look at it! You are so stinking funny and this is the last time I will comment on this blog because you couldn’t admit that your wrong if your life depended on it! and I just showed you three things that you were wrong in. I have read over some of your blogs and very rarely do I see you lifting up the name of Jesus, only your beliefs. Get a life and lift Him up and quiting putting down everything thats wrong.

  8. I am a member at NS and thought this was a very interesting conversation. Just a few quick thoughts:

    1) I don’t always agree with any Perry (or any other pastor). But that’s OK. Even people like Paul and Barnabas didn’t agree on everything.

    2) Numbers are important in Scripture!! If they were not, why would the authors even mention them? They were mentioned when 1 person was saved and when 5000 were saved. They are important to me, because I am included in the numbers.

    3) NewSpring is OBSESSED about introducing Jesus and transforming lives forever. I’ve never been a part of anything like it.

    4) If Perry was in it for the paycheck…then he would quit preaching and go into the corporate business world. Have you heard him speak? He is a born leader. What if someone told you that you were in it for the paycheck? It isn’t right is it?

    5) You keep asking for scripture….The book of Acts presents a clear picture of why Perry said what he said about hospital visits, knowing the pastor, etc. In chapter 6, the Twelve wanted to devote their time to prayer and the ministry of the word, so they turned over some responsibilities to others. What a great leadership concept, huh?

    There…now you have met someone from NS.

    God Bless you!!

  9. There is only one Jesus!! The Jesus I worship, follow, and serve was sent to save the world…not to condemn it. He didn’t die for theology, “doctrine”, or for us to sit here and argue about Perry Noble.

    I will say it is nice to know that God sent you to judge the hearts of men. I will sleep better tonight knowing you are certain Perry is in it for the paycheck.

    And, so you know…I will never put my faith in Perry’s “doctrine”, your “doctrine”, or even my own “doctrine”!!! I put my faith in the God Most High…Jesus Christ!!

    Get out and spread the Gospel. Jesus died for you and the best thing you can tell people is beware of Perry Noble. Telling people to avoid Perry Noble won’t keep them out of hell. Telling the Gospel of Jesus Christ could. Let’s quit bickering and help save a lost soul’s eternity!!!!

  10. Johnathan, sorry, but there was another Jonathan posting as well. Must have got the two confused.

    I am not being sarcastic. If you believe that Perry is correct, especially with his three Personalities of God, then you are not following the Christ of the Bible. If you think doctrine is unimportant, then you have not read the Bible, and are not following Christ.

    Can I condemn you to hell? No. Christ didn’t even do that. Who am I, but a worm to our Lord and God. No, instead, what I am saying is that the Jesus that perry tells you about is that ‘another Jesus’ that Paul warned you about.

  11. Johnathan,

    1.) God said it would happen – where?
    2.) You have faith – what is that – in God – which one and does it even matter – and in His word – what makes up the word? Does it change? Is it applicable to us today? Does it even matter

    I believe we are cleansed by the blood of Christ in baptism. We maintain our life by doctrine, theology, and deeds. (Epistle of Hebrews). If we endure to the end our life with Christ, then we are saved.

  12. He said it would happen all through his Word (Read Isaiah and the entire NT). I’m pretty sure you have already.

    I put my faith in God (the one and only Most High God) and his word. It does not change. His word is true, applicable, and relavant. It matters. Jesus is God.

    I don’t feel like I am growing the Kingdom by discussing this anymore. You have made up your mind. I wish you luck in enduring until you die. But I must warn you…you will fail. You will not be able to maintain a good enough life to enter the Kingdom of God!! See Romans 3:23.

    Everything does not have to be a debate. God called us to do bigger things. This kind of bickering is precisely why non-believers want nothing to do with Christianity. I believe Satan is laughing at us both for having this conversation.

    Take care.


  13. Polycarp — Said day bro. Stuck on titles of “Pastor.” Are you insecure?? Just remember this CRITICS WILL ALWAYS BE THE LOUDEST!! <–thats not biblical, thats logical.

    Check out Matthew 7:21-23 …tell me what you think.

    Perry Noble: “Hebrews 13:17 tells me that as a pastor I will stand before God and be held accountable one day…I take that verse EXTREMELY seriously…that is why I feel compelled to preach the Gospel like I have.”

    ^^^ Seems pretty legit to me!!!

    Check out Unleashed 09 from NewSpring’s website….Perry Talks about you in it 😉

  14. Jonathan, that is not your only job. You are supposed to be a shepherd – do you know what that means?

    I am not ready to call Perry Noble a Christian, Jonathan, especially if his idea of a pastor is one who shows up for a paycheck.

  15. Seriously, when Jesus died He tore the veil that seperated mankind from God. So let me say this: if someone is sick they don’t need a guy with a title to come and just pray for them as much as they need someone to say I can’t totally understand your hurt but Jesus does. You nor I can get someones heart and fix anything only Jesus can!!! I don’t know your heart but I believe Perry Noble is a christain and I believe all that you have seen is a web cast and a blog and never asked him if he was a Christain. Let me ask you a question! Which have you done more of: say negative things about other preachers or share Jesus perosnally not just from a pulpit with others.

  16. By the way have you ever heard Perry’s schedule! The man is the godliest man I ever met and if you’ve never been to New Spring before and met the people and know some of those people personally then you wouldn’t understand what God is doing at New Spring!

  17. Actually, Jonathan, the bible says for the sick to call for the Elders of the Church. No one is talking about a Pastor doing anything more than what he can do, but a Pastor is more than a person who delivers a motivational speech on Sunday morning.

    What is negative about the Truth? Nothing – just because it hurts your ears, does not mean that it is not positive.

  18. I realize what the Bible says and also realize that we are
    called to be a sheperd! My problem is that Perry gives much more than a motivational speech on Sunday mornings and yet people says that he waters down the Gospel. I grew up in a much more more traditional church and now I am sick of all the Christian slang language like traditional, contemporary, etc. The only things Perry is said about anyone is about people who watse their time blogging about him. I have never heard him bash others and Jesus said Himself “if they’re not against they are for us”. So I am like who is more wrong Perry or others for bashing him. And yet we do it in the name of truth!

  19. Perry, has taught me so much about the value of spending time with God. The reason I bring up his scheldule is because he gets more done for the glory of God than you or I ever thought about. Great works has nothing to do with being blessed by God. God has already blessed us and He’s wanting us to be a blessing to Him in return. I believe New Spring church is a church that’s more excited about Jesus than an church I’ve ever been to before. Have you ever been?

  20. Jonathan, your obvious admiration of Perry is turning into blind worship. Perry is not serving God, and I worry for you. What you consider bashing is what the bible would consider warning others about Perry.

  21. I’m sorry, but I don’t understand why you think he is “blinded”

    NewSpring is seeing people come to Christ in DROVES.
    When 50 people at NewSpring accept Jesus, 50 people join THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE.

    As far as the shepherding goes…
    you would just have to check out how they handle this at NewSpring. From the outside, it’s impossible to understand. They have SO MANY volunteers, and everyone is cared for. One man cannot care for 8000 people, but he can care for some, who will care for others, who will care for others.

    It seems that you think people need to have Jesus fed to them all the time. When you’re a new Christian, that may be true. Just like babies need bottles, so do we as baby Christians. But when will we grow up and learn to feed ourselves?

  22. Kayla, simple because people say they ‘accept Christ’ in no way validates their confession. From what I have seen, Perry’s doctrine is Rick Warren lite, and believe it or not, Doctrine is very important.

    Feed ourselves? Can you show me the biblical support for that?

  23. Hate? I believe Jesus said that hate in our heart was murder! It seems that there is more hate in your heart than in Perry’s. But I can’t look into your heart and you can’t look into Perry’s. I dare you to go to New Spring and tell these people that they are not going to heaven because you don’t think their confession is good enough. But then again you will bash a Pastor but you don’t have the pair to go and find out for yourself what their church is all about.

  24. I have no problem with that, actually – as a matter of fact, why don’t you send the like to Perry (less than) Noble.

    Ah, yes, an insult to the manhood. Mighty Christian of you, Jonathan, but of course, look who your mentor is.

  25. Your right I am sorry! I should not have said that! But you guys kill me calling Perry names like “Perry (less than) Noble” and then you will call me a mighty Christian. My grandad used to call that “the pot calling the kettle black”. This is the first time I have been in a chat like this and it’s rediculous. It’s like you are so closed minded and think that there is no way you might be wrong. I served under a pastor who constantly bashed Rick Warren and all I can say is that I never see rick or perry calling out one of you guys by name and tearing you down. But Jesus told us that we would persecuted if we served Him!!!

  26. Then go listen to Perry! He preaches the Gospel and if all do is take one quote he said and turn him into a person who hates his people then I know you haven’t listened to what he preaches. How many preachers have flat called masturbation form the pulpit and said that it’s sin. He said at Unleash that his problem was that he believed in hell to much not to care. And concerning the comment you made he said at Unleash “that the reason he did this was to protect his family”. And he made the comment he laughed and everyone else did in the building. I love my people and I cry thinking about them, but I know that Jesus can do more in their hearts in five seconds than I can do in five years!

  27. We put God first, but then it’s our family, and then the church. I think it’s amazing that one of the Criteria for serving in His Church is having a healthy family. There are guys out there who gave up there families for the church. The Church is the bride of Jesus and my bride is laying here sleeping right now. He will take care of His bride and I need to take care of mine. Here’s a thought! What would glorify God more a growing church or a divorce? Further more before you can serve in the church you have to have a solid family!

  28. Jonathan, pastors were appointed to the Body, to grow the Body into the head. If you neglect the Body for the Head, you destroy both.

    And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head–Christ– from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. (Ephesians 4:11-16 NKJV)

  29. If you neglect the head for the body! You will die! I can do without my foot but not my dead. I want the foot but I can live without it! It’s been nice chatting God bless!

  30. I agree that we should grow the body! But my point has been the whole time that so many ministers are trying so hard to grow these people to the head that they forget about the head. To see how important the head is just go to the next chapter. Answer my question! Your going to judge and criticize someone you’ve never even listened to in person or talked to in person! Why? Are you affraid you might be wrong. Because if Perry’s so wrong someone better set up a meeting with him and talk to him face to face. As someone told me if we want to be mighty Christian. that would be the thing to do!

  31. Jonathan, I think you are missing the point. A minister is there to serve the Body of Christ, the Church. Perry says otherwise. The Head is not going anywhere, but the Church is. If a minister withholds anything from the body, then that minister is withholding it from the head as well.

    I know enough of Perry from his videos and website to know that his doctrine and fruits are not biblical. I am not wrong on this, Jonathan. I would place my doctrine against his any day.

    Perry is a pastor in paycheck only, and I hope that you take care of your flock better than he does.

  32. Jonathan,

    I realize that you must attack in your defense, but that is more telling of you than me. I would say that Perry’s staff is bigger than those in the upper room, but I’ll still stick with the Apostles.

    God is doing nothing with New Spring, because New Spring is not His. Can you prove otherwise, I mean with out retreating to attacks and ‘his numbers are bigger than yours?’ Remember, Christ said that were two or three were gathered together in His name, He would be there – do you really think it takes large numbers?

    Straight is the gate…few…tell me, Jonathan, do you really think that numbers mean anything?

  33. Dude go look at the book of Acts and see how many times the word “numbers” is used. By the way how on earth can you say I am attacking you when you’ve called a mighty Christian and said that another man hates somebody. It sounds like you do enough attacking for both of us. Futher more the person who says that numbers don’t matter is the person who does have them!

  34. Jonathan,

    I am not a ‘dude.’ The word ‘numbers’ is never used in the book of Acts. Again, try to remember what Christ said. Look at what happened to Gideon. You like to attack, but you never offer a foundation for yourself.

    You actually, if you remember, questioned my manhood, to which I said that that was ‘mighty Christian’ of you. Perry obviously does hate his congregation, and the Lord for that matter – he tells you that.

    No, the person who says numbers does not matter is the person with a heart for God, not a pay check. We are to grow the kingdom of God, meaning quality, not put people on the pew, quantity. The person who looks for numbers looks only for himself, and his gain.

    Only John and the Mary’s were with Christ when He died; only a few made it to the upper room on Pentecost, and only a few remained with Paul on his journey.

    The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; (Deuteronomy 7:7 NKJV)

    Seems to me, that you are calling God a looser because He never looked for the numbers.

  35. Jonathan,

    Let me help you see something that is missing in your conversation about Perry. Never once have you commented on his great love of anything but his family. never once have you spoke about his doctrine. Never once have you defended him on biblical grounds – offering no biblical support for him or you. If you are a minister, then you are required to be ready to give an answer – and I would hope that that answer is biblically based. You cannot provide anything but that Perry has numbers, and they you attack me.

    That’s fine, but for those that come behind, they will see this and wonder how you defend a supposed man of God without the word of God or the things of God.

  36. First of all, I have used scripture in which you didn’t want to answer Epeshians 5! Secondly, what’s funny is the passage you gave was proving what I said. I told you that our purpose was to get people to Jesus and you gave me a passage that tells me that we are to get the body to the head! Finally, you try to play God but I am glad your not Him! You worry more about another man in some other part of the country and yet again you have not even met a New Springer. By the way I am pretty sure that God would call this blog attacking “Perry Noble” and yet you would probably call it truth and the sad thing is that when Jesus spoke truth He went to the people face to face. So you can call me whatever you want and claim that I don’t use Scripture, whatever! Your rpoblem is the fact that you try to make scripture fit what you believe so that you can attack someone else!

  37. Jonathan, I worry for you and those that might be influenced by you.

    What does Eph. 5 have to do with our discussion, but more firmly prove that a pastor is supposed to care for the congregation? The same with chapter 4. ‘Getting people to Jesus’ is the work of th church, but the ministers are there to take care of the body, which is the Church. They are to lead and guide, and to shepherd. What a wonderful shepherd Perry is when he tells his congregation that he doesn’t care for them.

    No one is playing God, Jonathan – which is always the retreat of a feeble argument. Oh, don’t judge, because that is God’s place. Actually, we are given the ability to judge the fruits and doctrine of men and women.

    I would be happy if God would call this as an attack on Perry Noble, and I would hope that He would lead others to this site and stand warned against Perry.

    You used, rather, typed a scriptural reference, without using it whatsoever.

    Actually, you are wrong about the Lord going to them face to face. I hate to quote the bible to you, but Christ many times sent people out, namely the 70. Read their response.

    Jonathan, when you return, if you return, try to show me from scripture where I am wrong. I mean, if will not happen, but you can try.

  38. First, the scripture I used in Epehsains 5 shows that Christ is the head you said that pastors are “to grow the Body into the head” I said before you ever used Ephesians 4 that ” I am a pastor and my job is to point people to the good sheperd”. My point is that you’ve never met anyone from New Spring so it would be hard to make the statement that “The Christ that Perry is leading people to is a false one, so whether it is 1 or 100,000, the fruit is still rotten”. In other words it would be hard to say that these people are rotten. All I simply said from the get go is this that I have heard Pery preach in person, I have met and known the people he pastors, and I have met people at this church and I know for a fact that you are wrong by making statments like they “rotten fruit”.
    As far as you playing God my point is not that your judging rather your trying to discern something that you’ve only seen from a computer screen. I am very well aware that we have the right to judge truth. You have accused me of attacking you, not using scripture, and being blind and yet you’ve never met the people I pastor before. By the way the reason I brought up numbers was because I have been taught that the most effective to handle people is to bring on more staff as your church grows and his staff is bigger than my my church times two. I am not in awe about this by the way either. Also, the book of Acts speaks of the numbers that God was adding to the church daily and I will be glad to pull all those scriptures together so that i will not be attacked again.
    When I first heard of Perry I went to their church let me tell you why. Because I did want to make comments toward the bride of Christ. It’s Jesus bride and if I was wrong I would be speaking openly against His birde and I don’t like it when someone bashes my bride so I am very careful before I bash another His bride. Seriously, this is not about trying to make things better for you because if it was you would try to help a brother out and I will be dawg gone if I sit here and say who’s going to heaven and who’s not because we can’t look into the hearts of the people we pastor and say for certain whether or not they are going! That’s why I say you are playing God! When I meet people at New Spring they will have ear ring holes, tattoos, and other things that you and I would not have but then they tell you how they acknowledged they were a sinner, confessed that sin, belived on Jesus (crucifed and risen), and that they have a peace in their heart that they never had before. Now you go and you tell that person that they are nothing more than “rotten fruit”!!!!
    I may not use as much scripture as you do but do us all a favor and use it in the context of what it’s saying!

  39. Jonathan,

    Tell me, do you believe that God has three personalities?

    I never said that the people were rotten, Jonathan. Mind my words. I said that Perry’s fruits were. He is leading these people, and you apparently, down a wrong road. That is the rotten fruit, Jonathan.

    You were taught wrong. Go back to the Bible. Learn what it says about the ministry. Leave the business model of church growth at home.

    No one attacked you. I said that the word ‘numbers’ do not appear in Acts. Yes, God added to the Church daily – note Church, as in the Church catholic. Can you show me the ‘numbers’ in the local congregations? And again, you have yet to answer anything concerning what Christ says and what the Bible has said throughout itself concerning those that would please men. Can you show me where Paul bragged about his numbers? Do you really think that people in the pew means anything to God if those people are not saved?

    Perry is not presenting a chaste virgin, Jonathan. I believe that you have answered your own self about the people that attend there. It is not about a mere acknowledgment of being a sinner, but repentance and then living a life of repentance. This is the rotten fruit that I speak of – that there is no change in the person, that they live the life of a sinner even still. Not the people themselves, Jonathan, but the fruits of the people, in that Perry is leading the blind, and you know what happens when the blind lead the blind, right?

    I would suggest, that you wish to have a biblical conversation, then you leave the emotion out of it, and stick to the Scriptures. Paul told us to test everything by the Scriptures, but you fail to produce any of them. Further, Paul told us to go by the word of the epistle, but where have you mentioned anything except Ephesians 5 which you use to point to Christ as the Head? Did I not say that?

    I understand that you are emotional about this, Jonathan. Perry is obviously a hero of yours. I would be upset as well, if someone attacked a personal hero of mine. But you have to understand, no matter how much we love people, we must still tell them the truth. Just look at Paul’s anguish over Alexander, the brother of Rufus.

    Do ministers minister to the Head? Or to the Body? Jonathan, ministers are there not to grow the Head or serve the Head only, but to serve the Head by growing the Body. The Perry that you are defending is one which has no love for his congregation, which is supposed to be the Body of Christ.

  40. Jonathan,

    BTW, I have been to Lavonia, GA, and I have to say, it’s a nice place. I used to stay there a few times a year when I was traveling through Atlanta.

  41. Jonathan,

    No, you’re awesome.

    The NIV is a thought for thought translation. The word numbers is not found in the Greek.

    No one is attacking you, Jonathan. Do not be so paranoid. What change do they have? Do they act differently? Do they dress differently? You have admitted that they do not. What change is there? People who leave a yoga session say the same thing. Islam produces these things. Mormonism is built on ‘good feelings’ and a ‘feeling in the heart.’ The heart is wicked and deceitful. We do not judge by the heart.

    Again, I did not call the people rotten. I simply do not know who you get that, especially when I tell you that I have not. I said that their lives are showing rotten fruit. Big difference.

    I am not sure where you have proven me wrong, and I am not sure where you have answered any real questions.

    I lift up Christ by lifting up His Church, which I thought evident with the Name? When we tell the truth, we are criticized, but Jonathan, that is okay. If you have gone through the Doctrine page and category, I feel confident that you have heard the truth, and that the blood is off my hands.

    Again, do you believe that God is Three Personalities? Do you believe that doctrine matters?

  42. Oh my gosh where is the dress coad in the Bible! The ladies cover everything and the guys dress like guys. You don’t have to wear a suit to get to heaven. The word numbers and adding both signify an increase in the church. As for as New Springers having a “good feeling” I said that they said

    “they acknowledged they were a sinner, confessed that sin, belived on Jesus (crucifed and risen), and that they have a peace in their heart that they never had before.”

    Hebrews says three times that our “conscience” has been cleared by Jesus. So no it’s not a good feeling it’s the real deal and yet you’ve never even spoken to one of these people. I forgot you don’t have to your mind is made up.

  43. Jonathan,

    Modesty and Holiness is required. Increase does not mean ‘numbers’. The Apostles did not play the numbers game.

    The Mormons say the same thing about ‘peace in their heart.’ To which I would reply that the heart is wicked (Jeremiah 17.5).

    You are still not answering the question – do you believe that doctrine matters and that God has three personalities?

  44. OK quit taking half of what I say and twisting it. For example the other three things I said about repentance. Next, again show me the dress code. where does the Bible say that denim is less holy than a suit. Oh wait it doesn’t. By the way I heard an awesome message that Perry preached one time and covered the issue in the church and told the ladies that needed to cover up stuff.

    And to answer your question yes I do believe docterine matters and I believe that God is three persons in one.

    My guess is that think that people could loose their salvation. What’s amazing is that people wil hear they need Jesus and He’s good enough to get to heaven and then we tell them that they have to do this and this and this. When in reality our job is to get them to throne room where (Jesus is) because He knows what are they going through. And yet you act like our job is so much more and again thats why so many guys are dropping out of the race.

  45. Jonathan,

    Please answer the question – do you believe that God is three personalities? Please answer that question, as asked.

    I never said denim was less holy than a suit. Please show me where I said that. I said that modesty and holiness does matter.

    Yes, people can loose their salvation – for apostasy. But, first you have to have it.

    The ministers job is a lot more than you describe. We are to grow the body to the head – not merely get them to the altar. Show me otherwise. Show me where pastors are really witnesses in chief and not as the ministers that Paul describes.

  46. And I told you that these people had the marks from their previous life and that they dressed conservative and you told me that they hadn’t changed. Just go back and read the posts that we have given. No I do not believe God has three personalities!

    Also, the throne room is the place where we find “help in our time of time of need”. I am going to continue getting people to throne room where Jesus can change their life. Because He’s the only one that can do that. I go to the hospital, the nursing homes, the shut-ins, I pray for people when they have a need. I see more and more that when I am beside the bed of dying person and the family is hurting: I can pray, I can encourage, but only Jesus through the Holy Spirit can heal their broken hearts. I counsel people who have addictions, hurts, and a ton of spiritual warfare going on but even then I point them to Jesus. Now tell me what I am doing wrong!
    Is Perry right for not doing hospital visits, is he right for not eating with select people in the church I don’t know maybe He’s not. Bu I will be dang if I set here and sy He’s going to hell because of this. Perry said something thursday that I a lot of preachers need to hear. He said I believe in hell to much. The man preached more on hell than any preacher I have heard in a long time. He spoke truth from God’s Word and then people act like he’s preaching a false Jesus. And again YOU’VE NEVER EVEN MET PEOPLE FROM NEW SPRING AND YET IF PERRY IS PREACHING A FALSE CHRIST THEN THESE PEOPLE GOT THE WRONG THING TO WHICH I SAY, WHATEVER!!!!!!

  47. Jonathan –

    Your defense of Perry is purely emotional. Do you realize that Perry believes in a God with three personalities? This is more than hospital visits, although he should be ashamed for saying that.

    First, if you read your comments, you will note that you never said that they changed. But changed into what?

    Did I say that you were doing things wrong? No. I said that ministers were to grow the body. If you are doing those things – congrats and I commend you. Your doctrine may be one thing, but at least you are showing love where so many, like Perry, are not. That is commendable, Jonathan, truly commendable.

    You seem to think that this is a personal attack on you. Jonathan, it is not; however your all caps seems to betray your lack of maturity in a conversation. Tell me, does the fact that Perry believes that God has Three Personalities do anything to your admiration of the man?

  48. Johnathan,

    1.) Paul and Barnabas always got along on the most important parts, such as Doctrine.

    2.) Church growth is important, however, numbers is not. Numbers does not mean good works

    3.) They are obsessed with the wrong Jesus.

    4.) Because, being the ‘pastor’ of a church earns him prestige and very little accountability. Religion has always been used to earn money. Just look at Simon Magnus.

    5.) The Apostles are different than Pastors. Look it up.

  49. It’s Johnathan..

    Are you being sarcastic? Why would you question my faith? After the two comments I’ve made, are you condemning me to hell? Are you comfortable with that? Did I say I follow Christ or Perry? Am I missing something here? Please elaborate…

  50. Please forgive my ignorance, but what 3 personalities of God are you referring to? Do you believe Jesus was God?

    Doctrine…I put this in the same catagory as denominations, theology, education, deeds, leadership, religion, etc. All things that Jesus Christ did not die for!!!

    My focus is on Christ and what he did for us. Am I wrong?

  51. Christ died to bare our sin…correct?

    I have listened to Perry. I get think beloved “doctrine” is better than his. Got it….great.

    Answer my questions.

    1) Is Jesus God?
    2) Who do you know that claims to follow Perry and not Jesus?
    3) Why do you spend so much time debating with people about meaningless theology, religion, and doctrine…when you could lead someone to Christ? You are obviously a talented man. Use it for the glory of God
    4) Why do you assume I don’t know Christ? Is this a judgement?

  52. Jonathan, you said that Christ died for our sins. How do you know this?

    1.) Jesus Christ is God.
    2.) Doesn’t matter if you claim it – blind people do not see the ditch approaching
    3.) Doctrine and theology keeps people in view of the right Christ. It is not enough to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and then be filled with the holy Spirit. We have to study the word of God, and listen to the commandments, following the form of doctrine that was delivered to us by the Apostles. Not doing so allows heresies to sneak in and leads others to false Christs.
    4.) I assume you do not know Christ because of the things that you have said. This is not a judgment of you as an individual, sending you to hell. This is a duty of those that know to those that do not know.

  53. I believe Jesus died for our sins bc:

    1) God said it would happen
    2) I have faith in God and his word

    What have I said that would possibly lead you to assume I don’t know Christ?

    Also, do you believe that it is our deeds/doctrine/theology that measures our righteousness or the blood of Christ?

  54. Johnathan, your hasty departure leads me to believe that you realize how silly your first stance was – that doctrine and theology do not matter. How do we know God but by His Word – which is Doctrine and Theology.

    If our gospel is hid, it is hid to those that are lost. It has nothing to with ‘bickering’, but the grace needed to bring someone to Christ. You seem to think we have something to do with that, when in fact, it is the Grace that goes before which draws Christ.

    I usually do not allow ‘I’ll have the last word’ comments, but Johnathan, I feel like you caught what was going on. I hope that you stay around.

  55. What a man, Joe, to defend Perry ‘HighWay to Hell’ Noble with a nickname. No one is stuck on titles, on ye who cannot read, but the resposniblities. Stop defending the lost and come to Christ.

    Concerning Matthew 7, I believe that you should pay special heed to that.

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