31 Comments


  1. If we remove “the doctrine and traditions” of both Mary and Joseph, we have nothing! For Scripture itself is both doctrine and tradition, least for the Catholic understanding. Also not sure what the community around Joseph and Mary knew really? St. Luke 2: 19-35

    Reply
    1. Polycarp

      Yes, because that is what this post was about. Please try to stay on point and in Scripture.

      I could care less for your present understanding, after all, I thought you said you would leave this blog alone. Perhaps its time you became truthful in this matter.

      Reply

      1. It is rather hard sometimes to see you state mis-truth…really hard! But you are right, it’s your bog. But you know next to nothing about “Catholic” doctrine and tradition!

        Reply
        1. Polycarp

          Tell me, where in this post did I ‘state mis-truth?’ I know plenty about ‘Catholic’ doctrine and tradition and I know plenty about you. Remember, stay on point about this post.

          Reply

  2. The Sacred or Holy Scripture is itself both doctrine and tradition, given to the Church Catholic! (1 Tim.3:15). And as I said, what did the community really know around or about Joseph and Mary. Again, Luke 2:19-35. But this is my last statement, promise. As you said, this is your blog.

    Reply
    1. Polycarp

      Yeah, I’ve that and a whole host of other statements which turned out rather false before.

      Wow, what a difference a day makes, huh? Suddenly, Tradition is above Scripture? Or, are you just trying to make a point, again, and fail miserably at doing so?

      Reply

      1. If I seek to answer, then I break my word again (so-called), and you will try again to use this against me, on this your “bully pulpit”… blog. Haven’t we both had enough of each other? I’m sure we have! Let’s have silence between ourselves, and cease.

        Peace of Christ,

        Reply

  3. That’s absolutely lovely, Joel. I hope you and your family have a wonderful Christmas together.

    Reply
    1. Polycarp

      Thank you a great deal, Steph, and to your and yours a warm (which I know you already have) holiday season.

      Reply

      1. Thanks – but I haven’t! Maurice and I are housebound with snow and horridible ice while my large whanau are congregating down in Aotearoa at the beach!! But I just love the picture you’ve recreated. That’s warmly wonderful.

        Reply
        1. Polycarp

          Here, the snow is melting, and we are expecting a rather nice day tomorrow with some family. Presents in the morning, I reckon, then Turkey, blessed Turkey. Its a real tradition.

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          1. Bliss …. I expect my whanau will be having a barbecue – last year the boys went bush and shot a goat, a rabbit and a pig or was it a deer, hung, marinated and barbecued with lots of salads … of course I skip the meats but still participate in it’s cooking. And then of course piles of presents for millions of children – mainly homemade, they’re a crafty lot my family – and big decorated pine tree dripping with pine needles, Christmas lilies with heavenly scent … I wanna go home!!!!

          2. Polycarp

            Mean kiwi…just mean….

            We’ll have our turkey and stuffing/dressing tomorrow with a carrot souffle, bread rolls, iced tea, broccoli and cheese casserole and some dessert.

        2. Polycarp

          You know, Steph, while you are snowbound…if you wanted to write a post on the value of modern scholarship…. Just saying

          Reply

          1. That would be an independent historical critical approach … not all modern scholarship is helpful – we’ve still got the apologists and the religion hating atheists and the blinking mythers!

          2. Polycarp

            True and fair enough. Of course, some believe that any scholarship except that which conforms to their standard is inherently evil. Personally, I am looking forward to spending more time in 2nd Temple Judaism, with the aid of Bauckham :) hoping to end the year in a Master’s program. I’m not a fan of some of the historical critical methods, but I did like the social memory concept of the Historigraphical Jesus.


          3. And 2nd Temple Judaism will be very ‘helpful’, and Bauckham has produced some excellent work … although he’s beginning to slide dangerously towards apologetics…

            I wasn’t impressed with the method applied by whats his name in Historiographical Jesus and what he avoids although April de Conick has done excellent and very helpful work on social memory.

          4. Polycarp

            I think that Le Donne has a good start, but I also believe that he is circular somewhat with Tradition, especially Incarnational viewpoints. He essentially comes to the same conclusion an apologist would but with more roads traveled.


          5. Le Donne – yes! I had to go and look. It’s on the floor by Maurice’s desk …. and it’s snowing! Yuck…

          6. Polycarp

            Hahha! It was 50 today!


          7. You’re cruel! I think 50 is more than 10 – we’re minus 4. It never gets cold like this at home.

          8. Polycarp

            Hahhahahahaha!


          9. :-p

            oh well I’m glad your children have better weather anyway 😉

  4. Newtaste

    A good piece. As always.

    At least some of the Catholic tradition of Joseph and Mary and Mary’s parents are based on Apocryphal sources. I worked this out from what is prayed at Novenas – and very little of it is in the Gospels.

    Reply
    1. Polycarp

      There is a lot in the Catholic Tradition about Mary and Joseph which comes from the Proto-Gospel of James, I believe. What little we know of Joseph, from the Gospels, is of a man of a great love, I believe. We know that he kept the law, and we know what the Law said. We also know that he finally disobeyed the Law.

      And thank you for the kind words, NT.

      I hope all is well.

      Reply
  5. Javad_1328

    don't we think if joseph calim he was mary husband, then he cover it her miracle perghant! the people if that time how could belief she be came perghant as miracle?!

    Reply

  6. Thank you for this wonderful post! What Joseph did for Mary was a great sacrifice. We can learn a lot from this. The love of Joseph for Mary was greater than the love that he has for himself. He sacrificed everything he had to protect Mary and the holy child in her womb. He is a perfect example for all the fathers out there.

    Reply

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