GOD TV UK defends Todd Bentley

GOD TV UK : Lakeland News Update.

Would the Lord instruct anyone to glorify an adulterous drunkard perpetrating fraudulent miracles, signs and wonders? Well, at least they are nice enough to include a decent list of false prophets.

Beloved GOD TV viewer,

In the light of many statements having been released about the LAKELAND OUTPOURING and concerning Todd Bentley’s marital situation, we sensed that the Lord has released us to write concerning this situation, so that you, our viewers would know our heart concerning this matter.

The first thing we feel led to do is to state unequivocally that in the same manner as the Lord instructed us to broadcast and serve TheCall gatherings with Lou Engle; to broadcast what was happening at the International House of Prayer with Mike Bickle; Rick Joyner and MorningStar; the Solemn assembly in San Francisco; BattleCry and Teen Mania with Ron Luce; Focus on the Family’s prayer event for America; the Day of Prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem; and hundreds of other anointed events over the past three years, we believe that the Lord instructed us to broadcast the Outpouring services at Lakeland with Todd Bentley.

It was not a mistake.
It was not by mistake.
We believe it was a clear instruction from the Lord.

Over the past twelve years, but especially since our launch in America, we have in obedience to the Lord searched through the earth for those events and anointings that the Lord has laid on our hearts – to amplify their message and anointing to the Body of Christ in this crucial endtime hour that we live in.

The Lakeland Outpouring with Todd Bentley was one of those events. We received over 45 000 e-mails many, many of these heart rending, powerful testimonies from viewers across the earth of their bodies or their families bodies healed, their lives transformed and their hearts revived.

None of us have ever seen such significant fruit in all the years of broadcast.

Far more profound than that were the desperate cries for help. I (Wendy), would go through the live inbox and see the desperate cries from mothers, wives, sons and daughters, so many with TERMINALLY ILL husbands, wives, children, sometimes babies in arms – sensing HOPE in their situation that for so long had been without hope.

Just reading these prayer requests would bring one to tears –

We are often so cloistered from the agony of peoples day by day real life agonies – and their agonies were written there.

So much so – that we both sensed that would need the word of the Lord under the fear of God to stop these broadcasts with the life changing impact they were having in homes not only in the UK and America but all across the world. And the Glory of the Living God that was being imparted.

We both kept a very close pulse on the revival since the start of its broadcast – we had first hand knowledge of the enormous criticism, persecution and reviling that Todd Bentley was receiving (often we were second contenders for it) but it was Todd Bentley and the Fresh Fire team who received the terrible weight of this.

Todd ministered each day as the revival continued but was consistently and unrelentingly criticized, maligned, persecuted – the attacks grew increasingly violent – and the heartbreaking thing was that so much of it came from the Church.

At the same time, Todd was facing a second wave of attack. This was from the covens, the warlocks – we heard firsthand concerning some of these assignments. The enemy had heard of the great honoring of the Lamb and was determined to destroy it – BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE AND AT ANY COST.

And the cost was Todd Bentley.

Was it because Todd was vulnerable and certain areas of his life were not surrendered wholly – Yes – like so many of us – in all probability.

Was it because the character of Christ was not yet formed in him in the equivalent measure to his gifting? Yes – like so many of us – in all probability.

Could it be the case that there by the grace of God go YOU AND I… Yes – In all probability.

Some of the areas in our lives are watertight and have been honed and refined and polished by the Lord while still other areas in our lives are often still in desperate need of attention. We are an ongoing work and we work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Well – all ministers who preach should ensure their lives are in order, you may be saying.

Yes – we and our board and our minister peers across the globe agree wholeheartedly.

And yet, beloved – unfortunately, THERE ARE TIMES when satan comes unawares and targets a vulnerable area whose weaknesses only become apparent under the most enormous and unrelenting pressure brought to bear.

We believe and of course this is just our personal opinion, that the revival stirred up the satanic realms in a manner that has rarely been seen and with a violent wrath.

It is difficult to understand the degree of spiritual battle that comes against a leader. We have learned we need to protect the move of God with greater prayer for leaders, including ourselves. The body of Christ is growing in greater transparency and accountability, and this too should be a subject of prayer.

Should all of us wait till we are as perfect and as watertight as can be and mature in every area – that of course, would be the safest course of action, but the truth is that most of us would be 90 years old!

The Lord who made us and knows that we are as dust and yet looks on us with His great mercies and compassions knows this and He the sovereign God of heaven and earth still chooses to take a GOD-risk on you and I every day of our lives.

That even under the most intense pressure that we would choose HIM.

That we would love HIM.

That in times of intense duress and temptation that we would follow HIM.

And let it be so – even more in all our lives, but beloved – let us not forget so many of those who walk in ministry across the earth today with such COURAGE and FERVOR and lay their lives down for HIS CAUSE at great cost to themselves – Todd and Shonnah sowed their lives to sow the seeds of revival and we believe became a supreme target of the enemy.

On the June 23rd, Todd actually spoke openly and with great vulnerability of his and Shonnah’s previous marriage challenges and how they had faced those challenges and the Lord had begun His work. He did not try to hide their struggle but shared their ongoing journey.

As Rick Joyner so wisely put it –
“In marriage, I have learned there are those who admit they have been through times when they wondered if their marriage would make it, and then there are liars. Relationships are hard, and the closer they are, the harder they can be. I tell everyone that I give premarital counseling to that the Lord has ordained their marriage in order to kill both of them! That is true. It is also worth it! The greatest gift He gave to man was marriage and family. However, to have a marriage that is good, both will have to die to themselves. If either one does not make the commitment to lay down their life for their mate and their family, then what was meant to be heaven can be hell.”

It is an ongoing walk – and we all are ongoing works. But the Lord said something to us some years ago – He said – When you hate sin because it HURTS ME – then it will lose its grip on you. When you hate sin because it displeases ME – its hold diminishes.

The Lord also shared with us that someone can be deceived in an AREA of sin but it does not necessarily mean that in every area of his or her life or ministry, they were walking in deception as some critics of the revival may lean to believe.

And who is to judge that the Lord does not hold the violent unleashing of criticism and faultfinding and tearing down and divisiveness of the heresy hunters, as severe a sin as separation in a marriage?

We will find out before the judgment seat in eternity.

One of our greatest grievings has been to see how many in the church backtracked to protect their own reputations. We have been truly refreshed by several close ministry friends with their uncompromising love of truth and lack of a man pleasing spirit that has arisen in the church in the light of the Lakeland aftermath. They have given us fresh courage when we grew weary.

So beloved friend –

Do we at GOD TV refute the Outpouring? NO.

We are presently planning to broadcast other offshoots of Lakeland in both the United Kingdom and America, including revival meetings in Dudley, England.

We have determined in our hearts to follow the Lord with all our might as courageously and as boldly as we can, to reject the pressures to bow to a man pleasing spirit but instead to humble ourselves under the Fathers leading.

For HE is our all in all.
He is our great desire.

Finally, dear friends, while we defend and rejoice in the many ten thousands that God lifted and healed, we also know that there were dear souls, sheep, who were scattered as a result of Todd’s personal choices. The Bible says that “hope deferred makes the heart sick” and this is the last thing GODTV would want to see happen. We are praying for any that stumbled and believing that the Lord will restore them to Himself.

Remember: this was never about Todd Bentley. It was always about the Holy Spirit and the fact that God loved you and I. It was GOD who touched our lives.

One thing, we felt impressed upon our hearts thirteen years ago when we first launched this ministry. That the Father will allow none of us – whether in ministry or as a viewer to hold idolatry in our hearts for any man.

For the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit alone are to receive our worship.
We continue on the road to maturity.
We continue our efforts to serve an end time spiritual army.

We continue to try each day to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of the ONLY one who is worthy of ALL adoration.



Remember also, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Let’s turn our eyes toward Him and away from our trust in man.

He who sent His only begotten Son.

The Great Father of Compassions.

To Him alone we bow.

Personally we believe that the best is yet to come.

Joel L. Watts
Joel L. Watts holds a Masters of Arts from United Theological Seminary with a focus in literary and rhetorical criticism of the New Testament. He is currently a Ph.D. student at the University of the Free State, analyzing Paul’s model of atonement in Galatians. He is the author of Mimetic Criticism of the Gospel of Mark: Introduction and Commentary (Wipf and Stock, 2013), a co-editor and contributor to From Fear to Faith: Stories of Hitting Spiritual Walls (Energion, 2013), and Praying in God's Theater, Meditations on the Book of Revelation (Wipf and Stock, 2014).

88 thoughts on “GOD TV UK defends Todd Bentley

  1. I got this in my email earlier today. All I could thing of was if God will shake all that can be shaken and will through into the fire all that is not of use to him, why are christian leaders so whiney just because of what they consider as attacks on blogs, emails, letters and I am thinking probably phone calls. Some of us go through things 100 times worse than that and we can still stand. When did the wimps get called before the true annointed…oh yeah, when they decided that God decided to speed things up. I hope they finally figure it out, microwave may get it cooked faster, but will it be tender inside, will it be juicy inside, will it be tough outside as a crust often is after you microwave it, instead of tender. The journey is not fun when it takes a long time, but it definitely makes sure you are not so vulnerable to fall for the same stuff. Maybe Todd and the whole crowd should crawl back on that operating table, ask to have the packages taken back out and let this progression happen like it is supposed to, bringing forth patience, perseverance, and character. I have a novel idea, maybe they should read their Bible. Shocking suggestion I know, but it would definitely blow holes in their theories of prophecy and how God works.

  2. I am thankful for Godtv, and Rory and Wendy’s thoughtful, loving letter. I am so glad that they have the spiritual discernment to understand that the Florida Healing Outpouring was not about Todd, but about God. I am thankful that Godtv still hosts the video archives of the revival, so that I can watch it over and over again. I am also thankful for the many revivals that are being sparked by what began in Lakeland. Amen.

  3. Polycarp, I don’t want to do this, but I tell you that if you don’t repent of your self-righteous, sinful attitude, that you are potentially setting yourself up for a lot of tribulation. I used to be the way you are; convinced that I was right, and repeating things I read on various websites. It took years for me to be restored to my right mind by God.

    I pray that you will not need the measure of discipline that I needed, in order to receive the Father’s love. May you have a change of mind at once, and stop attacking the work of God. I pray for an experience as Paul, the apostle experienced, wherein he met the Lord Jesus face to face. Please, please, stop persecuting the Body of Messiah.

  4. 777,

    If you think that God TV is promoting the Body of Christ, then you have lost your hold on what you might have once had. It is a shame that you would defend false prophets the way you do, with you veiled threats of spiritual harm. 777, it is you that stands in danger. It is you that needs that second birth.

  5. KINGS 22:19-23
    And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left.
    And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
    And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
    And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth and do so.
    Now therefore, behold the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

  6. Poly, I did not threaten you in any way. I was, and am, simply trying to help you avoid some of the same pitfalls I have already been through over the years, by prematurely judging people and situations. I wish you well, and pray for the revelation of Father’s heart for all of us.

  7. Todd the Fraud….
    Fraud TV…

    There is no one who can deny the facts.

    Todd’s coherts who support and endorse him AFTER
    the facts are revealed (Todd a drunk for years,
    Todd having multiple physical affairs for years,
    Todd lying over and over – and FFM knowing this)
    well, Todd’s coherts and supporters can stay in the
    ditch. The truth and facts are out for all to see.
    The evidence is overwhelming.
    Todd Bentley and Freshfire ministries are fraudulant.
    Those who support them are blind, deaf and dumb.
    Personally, I am waiting for the court case.

    ‘god tv’ (little g for their god) supports fraud,
    as the above letter clearly indicates.
    I hope people stop giving their money to fraud tv,
    or Todd the fraud.

  8. Dear Polycarp,

    I have read and followed your posts for quite some time now. They have been very refreshing and challenging as well. I would be interested to know if The Church of Jesus Christ on the top of your page is also the Latter Day Saints. I live in Idaho and was just wondering. Hope to hear from you.

  9. Sherri, thank you for the king words, and for that, I will reserve my usual comments about being asked if I am a Mormon or not and simply answer ‘no’. Please read the About page and the Doctrine page, as well as the recent posts on Mormonism.

  10. Hi Poly… it’s been a while since reading your posts as we have just renovated our church facility that a dear old Pastor who had retired at 75 gave to our congregation as he only had 10 people left in the church and we have 1000 over a sunday and were looking for a new facility….Truly a miracle….. It saddens though that in the 2 months of a busy season building a facility to host the ministries that reach out to our community that I see so many hours of research, web surfing, blogging, responses to others and it made me think….. what eternal benefit does this web site have??

    You have stated before to expose false prophets, to state the truth, but I see your opinion voiced through a web site…. Truly we are living in the multi media world because without this technology you would only have the small sphere of people willing to listen in your world but now a bigger audience.

    I’m not questioning what you do in your local church as you may be a very active member but I do ask the question…. With so much time spent here running this web page are you spending enough time with 1- God 2- Wife 3- Kids and 4- reaching people in a practical way in your community…… If yes and you still do this web site you must only sleep about 2hrs a night or not work……

    Anyway good to drop in again and say Hi……

    God bless

  11. Sleep? What sleep?

    Actually, I have been blessed with a day job that allows me to devote an unusual amount of time to the blog. I try to adjust my blogs, building a cache of them, while working on others.

    So, I generally devote time to all those things that you mentioned.

  12. The bible is riddled with people that are flawed. King David, who is to this day spoken of in high regard, impregnated another man’s wife. Peter, Jesus’ disciple, denied him three times. Moses, who was later used by mightly by God, killed someone. While Moses was speaking to the Lord, the people worshiped idols.

    I could go on and on, if you wish, but the heart of the matter is that the bible is full of people who were full of sin.

    And amazingly, God uses us anyway. Sin totally hurts yourself and those around you. Sometimes physically, sometimes spiritually. Saul, later Paul, was not immediately trusted, after his conversion. His sin was in the way.

    I love the way a pharisee (Acts 5) stated, when the disciples were being persecuted, “Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

    You may remember Luke 11:18 where it states that, “If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? Because you say I cast out demons by Beelzebub.” God uses flawed people. In John 9 it is talking about when Jesus opened the blind man’s eyes. In this chapter it states, that, “If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.”

    People come in the way of God’s work. Our sin, whether it be pride, love of money, loving anything above God (including your own parents), lust, the wrong types of television shows, any sin, hurts God’s work. Love the Lord your God. Seek him alone, ask him for the answers.

    God has and can still use this ministry. The ministry is not Todd Bently. Many people are praying and crying out to the Lord.

    This said, there are requirements for our leaders and their families. They are important; God cannot be uplifted while a person is not living for him. In 1 Chorintians it says not to keep company with someone that calls themself a Christian and, basically, knowingly sins. Repentance is important. No one can serve two masters.

    Todd Bently needs prayer, just like any other sinner. Just like me and you. We all do the wrong thing. Pray all the time. Don’t let Satan get a foothold in your life. He won’t always attack in an expected way.

  13. Erin, how often do we need to hear of King David? David did greatly err, however, he also repented. Further, he was a believer before he erred. There is scant evidence of true Christianity in Todd. Yes, Todd does need prayer, however, he needs prayer for repentance from sin to the true Christianity.

  14. Okay lets not talk about King David. How about Solomon. Used and blessed by God, but turns to idols. The Jewish people, over and over again they turn from God.

    Modern day, nonreligious example can be a person that is freed from something, like smoking, and turns back. God may have freed them, they tasted the freedom and went back.

    Manytimes when someone becomes a young christian, they feel ready to take on the world, but their not. If you don’t know the bible and have already been tested, how can you effectively help someone. That does not mean God can’t use them. Paul went into ministry right after being saved, but he devoted himself to the Jewish faith. He had the foundation.

    The bible is not only filled with examples of people that sinned and repented. It also has people that sinned and never went back, and people that never turned to God at all.

    I agree with you that he needs to repent. I also believe that he should not be in leadership.

  15. Erin, have you read what happened to Solomon? It wasn’t well in the end for him, you know. As a matter of fact, because of his sins Israel was rended in twain.

  16. not one ounce of Scripture.

    Where is God’s Word in all of this?

    My heart aches for those who will say, Lord, Lord…..

    May God forgive our inability to simply obey His revealed Word and have faith!

  17. There are relevant points made for and on behalf of both sides of this argument but it really only goes to confirm the very nature of confusion that is today Christendom. Spiritual deiscernment has been lost amidst the fog of Mystery Babylon.
    God help each one of us.

  18. I would like to bring to the attention of those who have responded something, the men and women of the old testament who fell had no scripture to run to get guidance, no blood sacrifice of a Savior to shower them with Grace so that sin did not have to have a stronghold. Yet, almost everyone was able to walk with God and their faith was accounted to them as righteousness. So, that being said, was Mr. Bentley responding at any time in faith, was he walking with God. His fruit says no, his following of the words of angels say no, his inability to read the scriptures in public leading to a laugh that sounded evil says no. So, how could the signs follow him that Jesus referred to, they couldn’t.

    God TV has a right to defend anyone they see fit to defend, the problem I have with them is this, when did it not become right to call sin, sin and admit you missed it by following the man and why was Mr. Bentley not guilty of sin but all who complained, tested the spirits, and brought to light the apparent and visible evil. If he was walking with God, was he so weak in his walk that when God began to shake him, he could not stand? God does promise He will shake all that can be shaken. Mr. Bentley thought he had it all together, but in reality, he had nothing together. I have been shaken in my personal life to the limits of almost giving up, but I grabbed onto Christ and stood up and stood. It was not easy and it was definitely more than criticism or judgments. I had my share of those, but it was brutality from the church itself (my son is autistic and makes the church nervous). Yet, I am walking with God and most of them are not. In the jungle of life, the strongest survive, in the Kingdom of God, the weakest survive because greater is He that is within us than he that is in the world. If Mr. Bentley truly stood in Christ, he would still be standing, instead I fear he stood on his own power. Yes, pray for Mr. Bentley because when he comes to Christ finally, he will experience the full grip of the pain from the damage he has caused, not to mention people not believing him.

    Jason, I see your passion, but what are you referring to, not believing Mr. Bentley, thinking that most do not believe in miracles according to God’s word, not giving scripture for you to look up, what? Just wondering so I or someone else might answer your vague question and statement.

  19. Polycarp,
    Who are you & how do we know that you are the model, mature christian with the handle on all truth pertaining to christianity?

  20. Dear Brothers in the Lord,Greetings to you in our True Lord Jesus Christs Name. Praising God because of your Zeal for the Lord. I appreciate your committment for the Ministry. Thanks for your prayers and services I cor1:4-9 Is 62:2 rendering to many people for Lords sake. Regarding me and my ministry, I want to share with you. Sothat you may pray for me and my ministry.My name is Mohammed Lazarus (33years old)My wifes name is Rajakumari (24 years) I was born in Muslim family and brought up in Muslim practices till 13 years ie., 1990. I was in the bondage of witchcraft and a paster has come to me and share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I was suffered with papalasis. Because of the Pastors Prayers I was released from witchcraft and healed.My faith in the Lord has been strengthened and I was baptised in 19990. My father,mother,sister and me (4) were baptised on the same day. Since, then, my heart was burden to serve Jesus and specially for Muslims. I have planted 2 churches and continuing the Ministry. I am living and serving theLord on faith only.My goal is to increase the ministry through your prayers and Partnership. Kindly pray for us and plan to visit our India. I want to know more about your family and the ministry. Please let me know about your activities. I stringly believe that you are doing the Ministry more patentially than me. I too want to know more about Jesus. Please respond praydefully.May God bless you, your family and your Ministry.Yours in His Service,(MOHAMMD LAZARUS)

    Rev. M.D. Lazarus

  21. Oh how we all make mistakes and have an attitude of holier than though i have suffered at the hands of so called christians using gossip to slander my name instead of coming to me to confirm or refute the gossip they spread it to yet more people, that is not my point it is the fact that i commited the fact to GOD and asked him to deal with it why don’t you all just stop gossiping on this site and pray for said person and leave to GOD what only he can undo. What kind of image is this showing to the world of christians and how we behave GOSSIP IS A SIN BREAK ONE COMMANDMENT YOU BREAK THEM ALL.

  22. To say he is not a brother is wrong we are all brothers and sisters created by GOD and we should and must forgive each and everyone who sins against us as it tells us to in the Lords prayer, We are also not to judge lest we be judged ourselves.
    Remeber Jesus as he was being nailed to the cross in agony he prayed to his father to forgive them for they know not what they do, this is exactly the same attitude that we should and must have.
    God Bless you all.

  23. So, again it is not the (Christian) person’s fault for his own fornication and drunkeness – blame the devil and now its is blame the whiches – have we learned nothing from the thousends of women burned at the stake at the behest of the (male dominated) church in Europe centuries ago? – did these women die in vain? If ever Christians ever got a hold of the levers of governmental power just look across the world at how a theocracy would work. So much salivating self-justification from Rory and Wendy – just admit your mistake in allowing
    snake -oil salesmen to demonstate their wares on your channel, which you also use to promote your own books and provide a commercial outlet for others who seem to do pretty well in selling the gospel at cut price deals – I thought the gospel of Jesus was supposed to be free – not buy one book get one free.

    I was accused one time of being “satanic” and “of the devil”, because I made a life-style choice of being a vegetarian – what scary time we live in!!

  24. So, Polycarp, those abused by the “church” ( individuals and denominations) cannot belong to the “church”. Tained and rejected by the “church”. It is no good telling these victims that the people concerned were not “proper” christians. You may have all the empty slick answers, like most of those I see on God TV and elsewhere. What you seem to lack is any deep understanding of people and their needs. I should do a lot more thinking and self examination before you think of another slick,”clever” reply.
    It took Jesus not quite two days to die. The people I have tried to help, died an excrutiating death every day and still see no hope of any resurection. Just realised what it is that you lack – COMPASSION. True compassion, of course, means self understanding as well as of others. I have learned more by keeping my mouth shut and my ears and eyes open

  25. Your falling overself to give a slick answer completely missed what I wrote. I never mentioned the perpetrators as needing or being given any recogntion within the “church”. I very briefly mentioned those “adults abused as children”. To put more simpley for you – those people who are now adults who were abused as children. Your immediate response was, “they are not part of the true church.”
    Incidently, I am glad that my comments came over as angry, as they were what many of these people have said themselves. I think they have every right to be angry – abused as chldren and then abused by rejection by the church as a whole – you bet they are angry. They refuse to be victims and refuse to accept the churches rejection in all its forms. As I said a little more thought and a modicum of compassion would not go amiss.

  26. No, I do not block the ‘really challenging ones’ just the ones that make no sense, refer to atheist propaganda without cause, and are insulting.

  27. Stevie, you define brother as in the brotherhood of humanity. That is not the biblical way of doing so. While we are all brothers and sisters in the flesh, the same cannot be said for those not in the Spirit. Todd Bentley is not in the family of God, the Church, thus he is not a brother.

    Please do not use the ‘judge not’ slogan that has been used to ignore all types of sin. It makes you look unlearned.

    Christ does have the power to forgive, if Todd would ask for it. Until then, he is what he has always been – a sinner, unsaved.

  28. I have never seen so much in fighting and out of hand rejecting of all you “brothers” and “sisters” “in Christ”. Have you never heard of the “woman at the well” and casting of the first stone”, etc. I am not surprised that the “world” views religion and particularly christianity as hogwash hypocricy. So much for good examples to the “non-believers. My only expereince of God TV is the performers advertising their “teaching materiasl” – making profits from the Gospel of Jesus Christ – tut tut. I do not see people such as Todd Bentley as a “fallen man”, but as a man and with weaknesses, but with the added ingrediant of hypocricy. As well know you knoe he is not the first “man of God” to be caught with his pants round his ankles. Not only in modern time – what was the man’s name? – Oh! yes Haggard – he also hung around with that other man of God – George Bush. Even King David sent his lusted one’s husband to his certain death, in order for the king to have his wicked way. The list is endless and the christian church is dying.

  29. David, I am sick and tired of people using King David as an excuse to allow all sorts of sins. We are no longer under the Law. Get over it.

    God TV is more than just selling their teaching materials – they are promoting Dominionism and the prosperity gospel. They are perverting the word of God for their means. It is nothing but love to say this.

    I never said that either Haggard or W. were men of God. You need to wake up an realize that all who claim don’t really have the name.

    The Church, the true Church, will never die.

  30. Hey, Polycarp, I am not using any of these past wrongdoers, ole King David included, for excusing wrongdoings. I am saying that wrongdoing has been a frequent and consistent feature of the christian church – yes I know about being under the new law, why do you think I mentioned the woman taken in adultry – something you clearly failed to recognise – too busy condemning and not realising yourself that, “there but for the grace of God…” I do not condemn Bentley and the like, I am just not surprised. It is all very well creating clever slogans about names and claims, after their behaviour becomes public, and saying they could not have been “proper” men of God anyway, it is quite another to admit that we all have failings and if the Christian Church cannot profess and practise that which makes prophecy, tongues, et alia of sounding brass, without CHARITY, then the “unsaved” will see the chruch for what it is – nothing to offer and failing.

    After having worked with adults who have been grossly abused as children by “men and women of God” (not all of the same denomination either) and who now have had their path back to a previous faith blocked, because they no longer trust any one who professes a christian faith. It is not just the individual perpetrators that shoulder the blame, it is the whole of church who commited further abuse by denials and rejection. So, as I say I am not surprised at the long line of wrongdoing, it seems to be a strong ingrained feature and smug “holy-than-thou” posturing does not give a good example to “the world”.

  31. Well, David, here’s the thing about the woman caught in adultery – she acknowledged that she was a sinner, and did not sought forgiveness. Todd is still preaching his false gospel. If the Truth condemns, so be it. Todd is not apart of the Christian Church, but he could be. That’s the rub with you – you cannot tell the difference. No one is saying that Todd cannot received forgiveness, but first he has to ask for it. And forgiveness of all his sins, including the false gospel that he has preached.

    Again, just because you claim to be apart of something, that does not make it so. I would suggest you stop associating the false church with the real Church. That might help you see things a bit better.

  32. Well polycarp, I will attempt to be brief and try not to give give examples from the Bible – remember that book? – read it sometime. The “world” sees how the Church behaves. No amount of internal hairsplitting as to who is in or who is out, or who has to do do this or that to come back into the fold, or who has got the biggest mote in the eye, is of the slightest interest to the “world”. They just aint interested. What they see they do not like.

  33. No, polycarp, what is stupid is to ignore how the “world” sees the Church – at best irrelevant, at worst dangerous hypocrites.

  34. The world has never viewed the Church well – PR is not our goal. And again, no one can help those who claim the Name, but act against it. You seem to be too worried about how others see the Church. I would suggest that you loose that mentality.

  35. Those adults abused as children, for whom I have cared, certainly do not view the chruch well and I am very concerned as to why and so should you be. They would pour scorn on clever answers – a scorn well deserved.

  36. Again, David, they were not apart of the True Church. One of the reasons why I post certain things is to show the difference. You really should try to separate the two.

  37. No, David, it is obvious that those that would abuse children, preach false gospels, etc… do not belong to the true Church. There is a difference between what is true and what is false. You have a deep anger, but it is misdirected. You would help people, but you yourself need the help, David. This is not a ‘slick answer’ but the truth.

    It did not take Christ nearly two days to die. He died within hours.

    I do not lack compassion on those hurt by these false people – indeed, it is because of compassion that I post on these people who would use the name of Christ for destructive ends. The issue that you have, it seems, is that you desire us to claim those abusers as Christians – when they clearly are not. I will not claim someone who abuses others, either physically or spiritually, as a saint of the Most High God. You seem to want me to – and that is in error.

  38. David, how much more simpler must I write? It is not the abused that needs to be rejected, but the abusers, and only until they repent. Further, the abusers, not matter what they claim, are not Christians – contrary to how you feel or how they are perceived. You are waging a war that is not happening, except in your own mind.

    What is your point?

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