20 Comments

  1. irishanglican

    Joel,

    I am reading Brevard Childs new book: The Canonical Shaping of the Pauline Corpus. Great so far!

    We must always say it that the Church thought of itself as the New Israel of God! But St. Paul still believed in a “covenant” for the people of Israel! (Rom.11:25-29) But this “calling” is however far above the literal Israel ideas. The Church is always involved, as there is simply only one redemptive BODY…Christ!

    Fr. Robert

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  2. Fr. Robert, is the the idea that Israel will be saved separated from the Church rampant in Europe as it is here in the States?

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  3. irishanglican

    Joel,

    No, the Pauline idea of salvation is one covenant, both Jew & Gentile, but for the Jews (as the Gentiles) their salvation comes thru the Church!

    Fr.R.

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  4. Of this we agree, Fr. Robert, but there is a movement that seems restrict to the States that Israel must be saved first. Literally, ministers are preaching that the Jews must receive the Gospel first and only after Israel has had a chance, then the Gentiles may partake. I find this against the Gospel and against the Pauline concept of the one Body (Ephesians 2).

    I had not seen this from the evangelical European theologians, where Israel is consider separate from the Church and in some manner, over and above the Church. John Hagee is a proponent of some of this theology

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  5. irishanglican

    Joel,

    I must confess that I don’t read just every book that comes down the theological pike anymore. I read just certain American writers. D.A, Carson is often good. As Childs new book. We have both types here also.

    We are always going to have a certain amount of pop prophecy books. Sad, but itching ears will always go for such, both here and in America.

    Israel is more pop oriented in the US also. Perhaps the best I have read about Israel was by Karl Barth in his later Romans.

    One of the best books I have ever read about Revelation, was by the Englishman Austin Farrer: The Revelation of St. John The Divine, (Oxford, 1964). Also his book: an earlier study on the Revelation, under the title ‘A Rebirth of Images’ is very good.

    Dispensationalism is bad theology…period!

    The best modern book on Revelation I have read is the American writer, G.K. Beale, the NIGTC…The New International Greek Testament Commentary. It follows the whole Recapitlation as a characteristic of the Prophetic and Apocalypic Lit.

    I love the Nation of Israel and her people…Jews! I taught and lived there. But, she is far from perfect. And the real “prophetic” is not always an easy task. But the Jewish people in their land, is always of an interest. But that means little sometimes. It is to the NT Church we must look!

    Fr. Robert

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  6. Fr. Robert, sorry for the delay in responding, had to take care of my wife and then it was a somewhat busy day at work. The only thing that I can say to this comment is ‘amen’.

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  7. Do you think that in Luke 6, it appears that Jesus is giving a rebuttal of Sirach 12:4-7.?

    •Sirach: “Give to the godly man, but do not help the sinner” (v.4)
    •Jesus: “Do good to those who hate you;” Give to every one who begs from you” (vv.27-30)
    •Sirach: “Do good to the humble, but do not give to the ungodly” (v.5)
    •Jesus: “If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that for you?” (v.33)
    •Sirach: “Hold back his bread, and do not give it to him” (v.5)
    •Jesus: “Love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return” (v.35)
    •Sirach: “For the Most High also hates sinners and will inflict punishment on the ungodly” (v.6)
    •Jesus: “And you will be sons of the Most High; for He is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish” (v.35).

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  8. Philly, if you will give me a few hours to get to my bible and my own pc, I will give you a better answer.

    It does look like a rebuttal, and it may very well be, however, Christ rebuts several parts of the Law (murder, adultery, Gentiles, etc…) as He brings in the Law of Grace.

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  9. THE TRUTH

    Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

    Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    TRUST ME, GOD HATES SINNERS EVEN THOUGH HE SAID WHAT HE SAID. IF YOU THINK SINNERS WILL BE IN THE KINGDOM THEN YOU DECEIVE YOURSELF.

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    HE CAME NOT FOR THE RIGHTEOUS BUT TO CALL SINNERS(OF HIS PEOPLE) TO REPENTANCE.

    Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

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  10. Luckycharms… is that a nickname or the place where you get your theology?

    What does your comment have to do with this?

    Further, you statement that God hates sinners even though God said what God said is silly. God did not just come to call Israel, but the entire world.

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