1. Jason

    This mistake made by the early Church was the result of imposing outside ideas on the Scriptures, not from incorrect reading of Scripture (although they had to incorrectly interpret certain passages in order to justify their beliefs). That period in Church history is actually quite similar to today’s Christians trying to mix worldly ideas and philosophies with Christianity. It was syncretism that was the cause of the early Churches poor doctrine, not Biblical literalism. The intent of Biblical literalism is to determine the meaning the author intended. Verses taken entirely out of context is in no way an example of Biblical literalism.


    1. I agree, Jason, to the extent that I try to say when speaking about the ‘bad’ kind of literalism as ‘woodenly’ literal. You are right, that we have to take context, which I like to say ‘literal in context’.

    2. Jean

      Amen Jason!

      A bit of science background for Joel: motion is always measured relative to something. If you live on earth, motion is normally described relative to earth. When you get a speeding ticket, is the motion of the earth rotating on its axis included in the calculation? If not, does that imply the authorities think the earth is fixed in space? There is no other way in human language to accurately describe the motion of planets in everyday language; a straight forwarding reading of Scripture is fully compatible with modern science.

      Throughout history humans have been geocentric in thinking as that is their normal frame of reference. I suspect the church fathers thought this way. The quotes do not prove the point, as heliocentrist commonly use the same language.

      For the most part the Catholic church tolerated heliocentrism as long as it was discussed as a theory. The only one who promoted heliocentrism who was burned at the stake (Bruno) was also a heretic. The church did not take the strong stand against heliocentrism that Joel implies, it never fuel the fires of the inquisition. Even wikipedia acknowledges that with Galileo it was primarily the academics influenced by the Greek thought that opposed Galileo.


      1. Jean, while your condescension is just super awesome, I actually no more science than you think.

        No, Jean, the fact is that a straight forward reading of the bible produces ONLY geocentrism. Sorry, but in describing scientific would not use the same language as those ancients who knew things only by sight. You can try that little parlor trick, but it is rather dishonest.

        While… so my implication, which I didn’t make, says things that I didn’t say. Again, super duper awesome.

        And yea, Wiki is fine for a few things, but I wouldn’t base too much on it.

  2. Rev Tony Buglass

    “For me, I tie my faith to Christ, in Christ and because of Christ. That I understand is important.”

    Yup. Me, too.


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