Unsettled Christianity

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Archive for the ‘Homosexuality’ Category

May 11th, 2012 by Joel

Oh dear… that poor lady in Lincoln, Nebraska

Okay, so I don’t usually make fun of people’s beliefs, but this one is crazy with a capital K.

Favorite line…

 Jesus was kissed by Judas, a homo, who tried to sabotage Jesus’ kind ideas. Do you choose Jesus, a celibate, or Judas, a homo? You have to choose!

Wonder if she ever read that part where Paul says to give each other a kiss.

May 3rd, 2012 by Joel

United Methodists Agree that they Cannot Agree to Disagree

Mark Tooley gloats:

The Adam Hamilton motion was considered the strongest attempt to dilute the United Methodist Church’s current stance that homosexual practice is “incompatible with Christian teaching.” The church prohibits same-sex unions and precludes actively homosexual clergy, expecting all clergy to be celibate if single and monogamous if in a marriage between man and woman. Legislative committees last week recommended retaining these current stances.

via United Methodists Reject Agree to Disagree Motion on Homosexuality « Juicy Ecumenism.

Such a statement is silly, I think. I know that this is going to get my liberal friends fired up, but honestly, all you are doing is actually causing the split with the agree to disagree statements. The UMC is an episcopal-style church. You shouldn’t have one group going that way and another that way. That didn’t even work for the Baptists.

May 2nd, 2012 by Joel

Joke of a Pastor Jokes about Beating up your ‘girlie’ children

Yeah… now he’s joking…

“So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, ‘Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,’ you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed.

Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch. Ok? You are not going to act like that. You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male. And when your daughter starts acting too butch, you reign [sic] her in. And you say, ‘Oh, no, sweetheart. You can play sports. Play them to the glory of God. But sometimes you are going to act like a girl and walk like a girl and talk like a girl and smell like a girl and that means you are going to be beautiful. You are going to be attractive. You are going to dress yourself up.’”

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April 20th, 2012 by Joel

In honor of #GC2012, a book announcement…. Adam’s Gift, but “Mr.” Jimmy Creech

The United Methodists are going to have their general conference next week, or something like that. This is one United Methodist who would not be attending, although the fights which will be presented will in fact be related to Mr. Creech
adam's gift

Also, from I hear, Mr. Creech will be coming to Charleston next weekend….

March 14th, 2012 by Joel

Is Sex Love? Is Love Sex?

Click to Order

For many ancient cultures, it is not. Even to the point of allowing that what we would consider homosexuality today, is not really homosexuality, because love is not involved.

The study, obtained by Fox News, found that Pashtun men commonly have sex with other men, admire other men physically, have sexual relationships with boys and shun women both socially and sexually — yet they completely reject the label of “homosexual.” The research was conducted as part of a longstanding effort to better understand Afghan culture and improve Western interaction with the local people.

Read more: here

We know from ancient sources that such acts where not considered homosexuality (perhaps, first of all, because they really didn’t have a concept of sexuality to begin with). Today, in the remnants of antiquity, we find much the same attitudes.

So, I guess my question is, can sex be separated from love, should it? And how does this play into our discussions on homosexuality, dominance between men and women, and our changing views of love and the beloved?

March 14th, 2012 by Joel

What would Jesus do (today?) John 8.1-11, NCNV

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Thought this might stir up a conversation….

But early in the morning he arrived again in the temple area, and all the people started coming to him, and he sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a man who had been caught in an homosexual act and made him stand in the middle.

They said to him, “Teacher, this man was caught in the very act of homosexuality. Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such men. So what do you say?”

They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at him.”

Again he bent down and wrote on the ground. And in response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders. So he was left alone with the man before him. Then Jesus straightened up and said to him, “Man, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

He replied, “No one, sir.” Then Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more.”

January 15th, 2012 by RodtRDH

An Apology to Commenter Tom Finland aka “Father” Robert

Made ya look! NSFW

 

Two fighters grappling in a mixed martial arts...

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The disreputable dilettante Tom Finland, that famous Irishman who pollutes every biblioblog with his homoerotic and phallocentric feces of comments wants me to apologize. He says, in part,

“Just a note Joel, I would not press this “trash” that Rod has put up, again this is simply not Christian, and now my wife has seen it, and she will simply go liable, is this is continued! I could care less myself, but then I don’t speak or live by myself. Lets just say she has legal experience. And beware of a woman’s wrath! ;)

*A word, saying I am sorry works wonders with my dear wife. She is Irish, and she is very upset!

As Joel rightfully observed, Manly Man Tom Finland (who is a complementarian) has all of a sudden decided that his wife wears the pants in his family. Oh, so he’s egalitarian now? I coulda sworn that these Reformed complementarian types were “manly men” who stood up for themselves, talked for themselves, and watched Mixed Martial Arts (*cough cough* homoerotic *cough cough*). First, Father Robert does the cowardly thing and bashes bashes Joel Watts on Jim West’s blog! He’s supposed to be [SUPPOSEDLY] a former Royal Marine, and he’s not even man enough to do that on these parts of the blogosphere. I call coward, and I call bull crap!

On the issue of sharing the Tom Finland post by Roland Boer, Father Robert for the first time has promised legal action, yes on this very post, he said ne’r word to Roland Boer, the author about any law suit. What does this tell me? Our former “Marine” remains a coward. He’s not even man enough to bring legal action against the man who wrote the post originally what is now 2 years ago! (but really wouldn’t be, in reality).

Father Robert is a woman-hating coward, he has proved that over the years with his arguments with Suzanne. There’s no doubt about that. His online actions lead me to suspect that he is overcompensating to live up to the complementarian vision of masculinity by being an angry, dickish, scaredy-cat piece of douche-baggery. If you think this post is a little tasteless, good on you! But, I have gotten sickened by Father Robert’s cyber-bullying and it was about time someone confronted him about it. Of course, what matters for Father Robert is not the original Greek of passages in the New Testament in the passages that deal with the lives of women (with often negative and oppressive implications), but to recognize the English Translations as THE Word of God. A ridiculous proposition, if you ask any reasonable person not named Tom Finland.

Of course, Father Robert recognizes that male bloggers have been too kind to Suzanne a woman: “I have noted too that most of the male bloggers have been very kind to you also”–yah, apparently, she shouldn’t be allowed to comment on blogs due to her gender. Perhaps women should allow their husbands to make comments on blogs for them, right Tom? Would that work? Women should be kept quiet in church, and even in on-line churches, aka, biblio-blogs. Tom Finland, the (phallo)logical thinking religious person that he is resorts to calling people he disagrees with names because he has no other way of arguing rationally. Of course I’ve resorted to polemics in this post, but this post is a rant and an attempt at humor at someone’s whose worldview is anything but funny. I won’t link to Tom Finland’s “blog” but it’s quite obvious that in his worldview, only the opinion of white males matters (no offense white people or males).

*This post was written in self-defense*

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January 12th, 2012 by Josh

“Complementarianism: Not misogynist, but first among misogynists”

Mark Driscoll really is God’s gift to bloggers. It’s petty, it’s cheap, and it’s as sleazy as a sportswriter putting “Tim Tebow” in their headline to attract hits but as God is my witness I cannot help myself. It’s just so easy.* Five years from now when he inevitably resigns in disgrace from a scandal involving the black-market sale of MMA graphic t-shirts he’ll look straight into the camera at the biblioblogging world and say “You won’t have Driscoll to kick around anymore”.

And we will shed tears.

This may seem especially tawdry since Joel has already posted about Driscoll twice (!) today. But I’ve always been a bandwagon blogger and something of a follower (Joel is undeniably one of the cool kids), plus Driscoll’s comments are so rich with untapped inanity that I think there are some angles to exploit.

For context, Christianity Today posted a short story about Driscoll’s upcoming interview in the British magazine ‘Christianity’, where he critiques the state of the Church across the pond.

“In excerpts released ahead of the magazine’s publication on Sunday, he claims that young men will not go to church so long as there are “guys in dresses preaching to grandmas”.

And in a blog post “for the Brits”, Driscoll writes:

…ask if you see enough substantive Christian men to lead your church for the next few generations, and if not, sound the alarm that there is a crisis!

I’ll try to briefly tie in some broad thoughts here. First, and apart from any scriptural debates, it should be noted that most egalitarians fear complementarianism because they think it leads to misogyny. Many think its intrinsically misogynist. Personally I think there may be a way for complementarian ideology to be expressed in non-misogynist ways, but practically speaking it leads to many poor outcomes for women.

There was a visual joke on “The Simpsons” where a FOX News helicopter flew across the screen with this message written on the side: “Not racist, but first among racists”. Egalitarian fears about complementarians could be expressed similarly: “Complementarianism: Not misogynist, but first among misogynists”. Basically, even if you could argue successfully that there isn’t any inherent misogyny to complementarianism its undeniable that misogyny finds fertile ground in the ideology. I hesitate to say Driscoll is a misogynist outright, but I find it seeped into his statements and their presuppositions.

His comment about the lack of young male leaders is a good example. He’s made similar comments before about the way women outnumber men in churches. This frightens him because complementarianism requires men because men lead churches. What any sociologist of religion could tell you is that this gender gap is a universal feature of religion, one that we haven’t adequately explained yet (I will pass on to my colleagues Driscoll’s hypothesis that clergy in “dresses” drive off young males; he may have solved the single greatest riddle in the discipline). Earlier today Joel noted that “let the women lead” could very well have been an answer to the British problem. But Driscoll’s words betray some disturbing intuitions that are part and parcel of his conservative complementarianism.

Let’s grant Driscoll’s premise, for the sake of discussion: Young men avoid church because there are guys in “dresses”.

So, young men will not accept the leadership and authority of men they think are wearing feminine pieces of clothing. Driscoll thinks the solutions is that they should wear different clothing, gruff up church, make it more appealing to young men, etc. Essentially, British Christians should capitulate to cultural norms about masculinity and the respect afforded to feminine figures.

What he doesn’t consider, what probably doesn’t even cross his mind, is that perhaps the Christ-like answer to the problem is to challenge cultural assumptions about gendered status-beliefs. Young men don’t respect feminine figures: isn’t the obvious Christian response to reject those norms, to stand up and say “Yes you may be uncomfortable with the feminine dress of our clergy, but the problem isn’t with us, its with you. Your disrespect of female figures, and your unwilligness to sit at the feet of female authority is not the way of the Kingdom we belong to. Your identity is not found in your gender, you do not have to defend your personal worth from gender-based insecurity“?

Driscoll’s complementarian ideology caused him to misdiagnose the problem (there are more religious women then men everywhere; its not the fault of the British church) and give a empty solution (bend to the will of the cultural norms rather than stand up against its misogynist assumptions). The latter occurred because his complementarianism, whether or not inherently misogynist, naturally accommodates the social realities of misogyny. It’s the uncomfortable reality of complementarianism made plain by the way thatKingdom truths cannot be fully expressed in its shadow.

 

*This is not to denigrate the undeniably good things that occur at Mars Hill churches. As a native Seattlite with dozens of friends who go to a Mars Hill affiliate I am personally aware of the many kingdom-building enterprises going on, as well as the rich spiritual blessings individuals find there. That said, I find that criticism of Driscoll’s behavior and words coming from parishioners inside his own church is non-existent, so all of this ribbing is both necessary and worthwhile.

January 11th, 2012 by Gez

A breath of fresh air from Joel Osteen on homosexuality

Some pastors preach that homosexuality is the worst sin, and seemingly that gays will cause the end of civilization as we know it. Joel Osteen doesn’t. Osteen told Oprah:

I believe they [homosexuals] will [be accepted into Heaven]. Because I believe that you have to have forgiveness for your sins. But sometimes we look at gay being a bigger sin than being proud or not telling the truth. I don’t think God categorizes sins. To think we’re all going to be without one sin …  I don’t think any of us would make it to Heaven.

I believe that homosexuality is shown as a sin in the scripture.

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October 24th, 2011 by Joel

“Love trumps chromosomes” – Former Anti-Gay pastor resigns after change of heart

Well…. someone is out of a job, but will end up on some tv program or another…

But in June, Oelschig experienced a revelation and attempted to explain his newfound support for LGBT equality to his church. Oelschig drew parallels “between the acceptance of homosexuality and those of other social movements, especially the civil rights movement of the 1960s, to which the church, ‘using countless biblical endorsements,’ once opposed but has since come to embrace.” The church council forbade Oelschig from addressing the matter further and eventually suspended him. Still, he returned to the topic during his farewell address last week:

“Before there was any creation, God was love,” Oelschig said, citing imagery from his original sermon. “After creation, gender came along, but God’s essence was still love. It’s my belief that the love between people is not a function of gender. (Homosexual couples) can express love, faith and affection just as we all can … it’s blessed by God.

“Love trumps chromosomes.” (here)

September 27th, 2011 by Joel

Whew… The Gays Don’t Exist

Harvey: “There’s one big fact that’s not backed up. There is no proof that there’s ever anything like a gay, lesbian or bisexual or transgendered child, or teen or human. One of the other things you’re gonna see as I mentioned is a big campaign GLSEN’s gonna roll out this year calling for ‘respect,’ respect! Not just for people, but for homosexual lifestyle. The PR campaign to hold up gay as a good thing: the lifestyle, not the person, because there are no such humans.”

via Anti-Gay Christian Right-Wing Activist Says ‘There’s No Proof’ LGBT People Exist | Addicting Info.

Man, glad that’s settled…So, what do you think?

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