Unsettled Christianity

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Archive for the ‘Holiness’ Category

August 4th, 2010 by Joel

Whatever Happened to Modesty? What’s that?

I more than agree with Michael on this one. I am the father of two young girls, and for the life of me, I don’t understand why parents let their children wear the things that they do. I remember sitting someone listening to a nurse talk and laugh about her three year old who could do a perfect imitation of a stripper, pole and all. Really? Anyway, Michael says it well and lays out four guidelines for modesty -

Here they are: “Four Guidelines for Modesty”:

  1. If you have trouble getting into it or out of it, it is probably not modest.
  2. If you have to be careful when you sit down or bend over, it is probably not modest.
  3. If people look at any part of your body before looking at your face, it is probably not modest.
  4. If you can see your most private body parts or an outline of those parts under the fabric, it is probably not modest.

Read the rest here:

Whatever Happened to Modesty?.

June 24th, 2010 by Joel

James McGrath, Holiness Preacher

This has to be one of the best sermons on holiness, as I understand it, that I’ve read in a long time.

…..The assumption here is that, just as purity seemed to be more powerful than holiness, evil seems to be more powerful than goodness.

In the symbolism of the purity language in the New Testament, I find a powerful challenge to strive for infectious goodness. A goodness that can easily be corrupted is fairly weak and superficial – it probably means that one doesn’t desire that which is good, and so can only imagine people choosing the good if other choices have been hidden from view…..

Exploring Our Matrix: Contagious Holiness.

I came from a holiness, supposedly, congregation so these ideas interest me. Read the entire post as it is a powerfully good one.

December 19th, 2009 by Joel

Validation of Experiences

I have to wonder how many times we judge others by our own experiences.

I am speaking, of course, of the religious experience. If we have a religious experience (insert you own definition here) in one place, under one doctrine, or one person, or even with one bible, then is it possible that we then judge the experiences of others by our situation.

Examples – the KJVO myth. Some people who hold to this doctrine often times denies the salvation of another if they were saved under the reading of an NIV.

Or charismatics and pentecostals and others.

Just some passing thoughts here, but if we have a religious experience, why is it always assumed that it was the external factors which produced the results – bible, doctrine, ‘move’ – and not us?

The same thing with Atheists. Because they have never had one, of have had one and then justified it, then they assume that all others are equally wrong.

December 10th, 2009 by Joel

Biblical Proof for a Charismatic Style Service?

…Brian asks here.

Read the rest of this entry »

December 3rd, 2009 by Joel

Orthodox Salvation

Thoughts?

Read the rest of this entry »

July 25th, 2009 by Joel

Jason, Why did you have to go there?

Jason is in trouble. Either that, or he’s on a roll. Here are two posts from yesterday, check them out.

On Public Nudity:

When man was created he was naked.  Once he sinned he recognized that he was naked, and felt shame.  That began the clothing industry.  The first designer was not DKNY, but YHWH.  Several others have attempted their hand at the design business since YHWH created his first “fall” line (pun intended), but frankly, I’m not so sure YHWH approves of their designs.

The only thing that I would like to add – Jason should have included men in bikini briefs as well.

And on those pesky question askers:

Why is it that when someone challenges a traditional teaching/practice, he is often labeled as “divisive” or a “troublemaker,” and is summarily dismissed?  It may be true that the individual has a divisive attitude or is acting in a troublesome manner, but the attitude in which he dissents or questions a particular doctrine/practice is separate from the arguments he presents against it.  Someone may be the biggest jerk on the planet, but their attitude has nothing to do with whether their arguments are valid, and their beliefs correct.  Simply pointing out their bad attitude does not answer the question of what is true, nor does it excuse us from interacting with their arguments.  Labeling and dismissing those who question the mainstream view is often just a power play, usually employed by those without a rebutting argument.  It’s a way of avoiding discussion, and having to defend their own point of view.

July 8th, 2009 by Joel

The Modest Woman in the Ancient World

Michael at Ecce Homo listed as one of this five valuable resources a letter between two women, friends, concerning the modesty of a wives in the ancient world. According the Michael, while the letter which we have dates from the 3rd century, it was most likely written as early as the 1st century – or around the time of the composure of 1st Timothy (maybe).

First, we look at 1st Timothy 2.9-15:

In like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. (1Ti 2:9-15 NKJ)

I would have to agree with Michael that the women here spoken of by Paul are primarily the married women, but I believe that Paul expected modesty from all women.

Paul’s commands to women here have been taken in a variety of ways – some harsh, some as cultural contexts. While culture plays a part – from the outside – Paul is referencing something more important – that regardless of culture, women professing piety must act a little pious.

Further, in regards to childbearing, Michael makes an excellent addition to the controversy regarding the moods of ancient Roman society in that first, it may have been against the law to refuse to have children and second, abortions could end the life of the woman very easily. In other words, this was physical deliverance rather than the eschatological salvation which many see.

Michael provides a greater resource than I could, which would be to restate his arguments, but if you would like, click here and read his treatment of this passage of Scripture. While you may not agree with everything that he has to say, it is a different take on this passage.

Regarding the letter mentioned above,

From P. Haun. II, 2 II, 1-42:

Melissa to Clearete, Greetings.

Of your own volition it appears to me that you have the characteristics of what is good. For you wish zealously to hear [teaching] about a wife’s adornment. It gives a good indication that you intend to perfect yourself according to virtue. It is necessary then for the free and modest (ἐλεύθεραν καὶ σώφρονα) wife to live with her lawful husband adorned with quietness, white and clean in her dress, plain but not costly, simple but not elaborate or excessive. For she must reject garments shot with purple or gold. For these are used by hetairai in soliciting men generally, but if she is to be attractive to one man, her own husband, the ornament of a wife is her manner and not her dress (στολή). And a free and modest wife (ἐλεύθεραν καὶ σώφρονα) must appear attractive to her own husband, but not to the man next door, having on her cheeks the blush of modesty (ὄψεως) rather than of rouge and powder, and a good and noble bearing and decency and modesty (καλοκαγαθίαν καὶ κοσμιότητα καὶ σωφροσύνην) rather than gold and emerald. For it is not in expenditure on clothing and looks that the modest woman (σώφρονα) should express her love of the good but in the management and maintenance of her household, and pleasing her own husband, given that he is a moderate man (σωφρονοῦντι), by fulfilling his wishes. For the husband’s will ought to be engraved as law on a decent wife’s mind and she must live by it. And she must consider that the dowry she has brought with her that is best and greatest of all is her order and trust in both the beauty and wealth of the soul rather than in money and appearance. As for money and looks, time, hostility, illness and fortune take them away: rather the adornment of soul lasts till death with women who possess it.

Similar in thought to Paul’s speech, but also allowing that the husband must be a ‘moderate man.’ I wonder if there are any corresponding letter between men of this time period detailing the duties of a husband to a wife?

Paul provides very little -

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. ”For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”  This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. (Eph 5:25-33 NKJ)

Peter adds this to the duties of a husband, after giving duties to a wife:

In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat your wife with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God’s gift of new life. Treat her as you should so your prayers will not be hindered. (1Pe 3:7 NLT)

I use the NLT here because I believe that it gives a better translation for ‘weaker vessel’ than a then more literal (N)KJV.

The Household Codes of the New Testament were not new, but generally considered the example of a good life in the ancient world. We should seek to understand the cultural context of the statements, however, so that we do not add to the Scripture what is not there. Holiness is for a people, men and women, devoted to God. Although we can see a scholarly treatment provides for us essential clues – supported by instances from the times – to the holiness of the early Church, we note that even then, society, while not always practicing it, recognized modesty.

June 26th, 2009 by Joel

The Movies: Violence, Language and Nudity

I don’t like to agree with Nick too much, but he does have a point:

I actually agree 100% with something that John Piper said in reference to movies:

I have a high tolerance for violence, high tolerance for bad language, and zero tolerance for nudity. There is a reason for these differences. The violence is make-believe. They don’t really mean those bad words. But that lady is really naked, and I am really watching. And somewhere she has a brokenhearted father.

May 14th, 2009 by Joel

Is American Idol the place for Christians?

Can you spot the Christian?

Supposedly, this season of American Idol has two ‘Christians’, Danny Gokey and Kris Allen. And people are singing their praises, no doubt, but for what? Do they have talent? I am sure that they do – not having watched Idol, I cannot judge for myself, but since they are at the final round, I assume that they do. But, in Matthew 25, we are told that everyone has ‘talents.’ But what are they using them for? (Psss… musical talent is indeed a beautiful talent that is more widely enjoyed than say, anything else in the world, but it is not the only talent)

Are they using them for the glory of the Kingdom? Are they singing the songs of Zion (Psalm 137)? No, they are singing the songs of the world using the talents that they claim to be given by God. And what exactly do these songs represent?

You ever notice the hypocrisy of that statement – ‘so so really has a talent given by God.’ Well, in fact, everyone has a talent and every good thing comes from God (James 1.17), thus every talent is God given. But, do they all use it for God, and does one talent make one person more gifted by God? And if so, doesn’t that mean that they should give those talents to the things of God?

I think that we should consider several examples of (musically) talented individuals before we proceed.

  • Elton John
  • Hank Williams
  • Elvis Presley
  • Liberace

And countless others who have used their ‘God-given’ talent to make music about sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll. Elton John and Liberace, both wonderfully talented people, and both of more than questionable morality. So too of Hank and Elvis – who both sang gospel tunes, with one a writer of them, but never fully devoted to using their talents for God. Can you imagine the outcome if they had?

You might disagree with me, of course, but this is my opinion. First, let me give you my foundation for my opinion -

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going. (Ecclesiastes 9:10 NKJV)

Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths. (Proverbs 3:5-6 NKJV)

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. (Deuteronomy 6:5 NKJV)

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? (Matthew 6:24-25 NKJV)

And remember the words of the Lord:

If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. (John 15:19 NKJV)

Do you think it profitable for the Kingdom for ‘Christians’ to sing these songs, or to even perform on American Idol? No, this is not a fear of the word ‘Idol’ although there is something to be said about attempting to achieve that title for oneself. I fear that too many times people accept ‘Christians’ doing what they fell like doing, as long as they given ‘God’ of ‘Jesus’ the credit for it; yet, Christ said,

But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:23-24 NKJV)

I would like to thank Jesus for the clean kill

I would like to thank 'Jesus' for the clean kill

Does it really matter if you give the credit to ‘Jesus’ if what you are doing is not in Spirit and Truth? Do you think that the name of ‘Jesus’ gives you a free pass? Could a hit man, with a talent for sniping, actually stand up and say, ‘I thank Jesus’ for my steady hand and a clean shot and that actually gets a free pass?

Do you really think that this is what Paul meant when he wrote:And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him. (Colossians 3:17 NKJV)

But the question remains – Is American Idol the place for Christians? No. I think that if you have a talent, and you are attempting to live for God, the last place you want to be is a place where you use your talents to do things against the Gospel. Don’t you?

April 27th, 2009 by Joel

Degrading Lyrics, Degraded Behavior – Your Children and Their Music

Young men, dressed as animals, follow several attractive women down the street. As they close in, the men shoot darts into women’s bodies-as if the women were animals and the men big game hunters. Moments later, all the women are lying on the ground.

This scene is from a music video by a band called the Bloodhound Gang. The lyrics include such gems as: “You and me baby ain’t nothin’ but mammals. Let’s do it like they do on the Discovery Channel.”

That’s about as explicit as I’m allowed to get-or want to get.

The song, like many others, not only contains offensive language; it also describes men treating women in degrading ways. And now there’s evidence that listening to this music leads teens to engage in the same kind of behavior the songs describe.

According to published reports, researchers at the University of Pittsburgh evaluated the sexual aggressiveness of popular song lyrics from least degrading to most degrading. And then they asked 771 teenagers about both their taste in music and their sexual behavior.

It turned out that 44.6 percent of the teens who listened to the most degrading music had engaged in sex. But of those who had not listened to sexually-degrading music, only 20.6 percent had sex.

There’s more bad news, according to Brian Primack, the study’s lead author. He said the lyrics, which “frequently portray aggressive males subduing submissive females . . . may lead adolescents to incorporate this ‘script’ for” sex “into their worldview.” They may make both male and female adolescents “feel compelled to play out” the roles the lyrics assign to them, Primack added.

No wonder three-quarters of a million American teenagers get pregnant each year; or that nearly a fourth of all teenage girls contract a sexually-transmitted disease, or that so many women are sexually abused by men.

Read the rest here.

April 8th, 2009 by Joel

Can a Christian be Emo? What Excuse will you give? Plus, 'Christian' Emo Music

Over the past few days, this post as attracted a lot of attention, for what ever reason, so I am reposting it for more discussion. Let me add this, however,

So wherever you assemble, I want men to pray with holy hands lifted up to God, free from anger and controversy. And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes. For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do.
(1 Timothy 2:8-10 NLT)

Do you consider the picture here as representative of the Apostle’s commands?

First, here:

“Emo” is short for Emotional. Emo, in general, is described as someone being very emotional, but only the dark side of emotion. No joy or happiness, only sadness and depression. These dark emotions, that most Emo types call “finding their inner self” are then represented by their fashion and hair styles. A lot of these people, most commonly teenagers, also inflict pain upon themselves by cutting or other means. They are typically associated with being emotional, sensitive, shy, introverted, or angst-ridden.

Then we go to here:

This past week, Wb and I were talking about the present state of youth and youth culture. Our youth are bombarded with a culture that is antithetical to the core beliefs of Christianity. From Emo to other various shades of the rather dark world that surrounds our children, they are enticed to throw away their parents and traditions in favor to conforming.

I want my children to have friends, but I know that it might not be possible to be the post popular kids in town because of the limitations we live under in our lifestyle…..

But what is the opposite end of the spectrum? Well, there are those families that strive to have popular children, who against what they believe to be true, allow thier children to participate in activities which they deem inappropriate for others. They make excuses, or turn a eye to blindness, and rise to anger if someone would dare to speak ‘against’ their children.

And now, Wb had posted another great topic on Emo where is says, in part,

But Emo music also serves as a red flag for those of us who are not into it. The red flag is saying these people are feeling stressed. They are feeling pain. They are trying to escape. Perhaps they do not feel loved. Perhaps they feel pressure to perform. Perhaps they have been hurt. Perhaps they feel abandoned and alone. Emo lets them feel it and express it.

The church, and individuals within it, needs to find ways to share Christ, and to help  Emo-ites relieve stress in their lives and helping them find healthy ways to connect and deal with their pain and the causes of their pain. And we need to do so in ways where they feel cared for and loved, rather than judged and condemend.  We need to share the love of God with them, as they need the healing of the Holy Spirit. This is what it means to love our brothers.

One of the problems with  Emo-ites is they are asocial, except perhaps with other Emo-ites. This asocial behavior causes them to feel even more misunderstood and more lonely and more uncared for. It is a cycle that they spin down into.

Another of the problems  Emo-ites have that many have hurt themselves physically, in efforts to deal or not deal with the emotional pain they have. We need to help them connect to someone outside themselves and their group. This is a challenge, but they need to feel loved and understood. They need to know God’s love.

Still another of the problems with  Emo-ites is that they are often searching for identity and trying on this style to see if it fits. They either do not know Christ, or do not have a strong enough sense of who they are in Christ to not need to find their identity. The issue comes in because there are a lot of young men who embrace a more feminine look, and the girls a more wild look, which in turn seems to attract a number of bisexual and homosexual people. These young people who are searching for identitfy sometimes get drawn into a lifestyle that is incongruent with loving Jesus. They fall to temptation.

Friends, if you have children like this around you, pray for them, reach out to them, but do not make excuses for them. Lead them to Christ. Lead them to the love of God before they are led to a path that ends only in destruction. I have spent a week or so looking for ‘Christian Emo’ music. And this is the one band that I have found:

From here:

Virginia’s Yours For Mine have managed to find the perfect balance between post-hardcore, progressive rock and emo. What first comes to mind would be similarities to From Autumn to Ashes but the additions of brass and talking dubs on tracks like “Absence In Elegance” steer them more in their own direction. The album boasts badass bass and rhythm lines with a nice variety of melodic styles, but it is the calibre of the instrumental talent that stands out. Songs such as “The Angry End” and “What Happened to Us” are strong in lyrics, melody and construction. Being recorded by Caleb Keiter (Death Cab for Cutie) and mastered by Kim Rosen (Franz Ferdinand) has definitely helped this debut too. The title track and “The Instrumental” shine light on the fact that Yours For Mine are very much a religious band. Unlike many Christian records though, this album doesn’t preach, making it appeal to a much larger audience. It’s a strong debut and a great record whether you pray to the God of Christianity or the God of rock. (Blood and Ink)

This is their myspace. Tell me, dear friends, do you think this is fine for Christians to listen to?

They style themselves,

A progressive indie-rock quintet from Harrisonburg, VA. For almost four years we’ve been producers of music that’s been titled by some as “intelligent” or “spastic” or “moody” and mostly “ridiculous” – we just love music. We are lovers of Jesus, and we don’t think we’re better than anybody because of it. We feel extremely blessed by the opportunities we’ve been given to share the beauty of God’s grace through the music we play. Give us a listen. Be a friend, but more than that, love each other. -yfm