1. there is only one doctrine that truely unites, when all obey the Father’s command from the Mount of transfiguration and listen to Jesus. the church has prostituted this command and turn it to “Listen to the Church”, and so you have the 1900 hundred years of shameful history of denominational rifts.The fathe r gave the disciples one command..”Listen to Him”, and the Lord gave the church one command,after the apostles had messed it all up..”He who has ears, let Him hear what the Holy Spirit is saying to the churches.” Yes, you may hear from God..but that does not mean that anyone else is meant to listen to you, as The Lord answered Peter..what business is that of yours, as for you , you must follow me. True unity can be achieved..otherwise the Lord would not have given us the glory to achieve it (John17:21-23). It is achieved when all disciples individually listen to Jesus,as they follow Him and practice His words they have heard under the supervision of the Holy Spirit until they form a church that hears what the Holy Spirit is saying to them. So do not worry about these people who seem to be some body and yet have not been trusted by the Holy Sprit with his power without limit, preachers who need bodyguards, and their congregations to feed them. The true shepherds are the body guards of their flocks and they are the ones who feed their flocks .Oh..concerning the Bride..the angel must have been lying to John when he showed John the Bride..the city of New Jerusalem coming out of heaven.The Church is not the bride..but the body of Christ, but there is a church that is a prostitute, who sells herself to the highest bidder…anyone who will listen to her. In fact she will pay for people to listen to her, lavish her gifts on those who’d listen..just like Isreal when she prostituted herself. I know this really upsets those who think the church is the bride because they twist what Paul wrote..but hey, I didn’t call New Jerusalem the Bride,,the Angel did,,go tell him he’s wrong.(Rev 21:9) And no where is it written that we become New Jerusalem either, but that we who have washed our robes will enter her gates(Rev 22:14). What a mixed up and ignorant bunch “christians’are..all because we don’t listen to Jesus only. Dr.ed, a footstool of Jesus Christ.

  2. Miriam the Learner

    Being acquainted with some who have accepted the New Apostles I have been careful to investigate as much as possible with a view to the possibility of this being something ‘good’. However, as much as I try, I can’t help the feelings of shock and alarm when I read some of the writings/statements of these ‘New Apostles’. Things like the use of 2 Peter 1:12 regarding ‘this present truth’ and attempting to convince us all that this would imply that there are different ‘truths’ that develop at different times in the history of the church. I have to agree with ‘Polycarp’ on pretty much everything he says here. If there were no other problematic aspects of this New Apostolic Movement (and there appear to be many), the misuse and perversion of scripture is enough for me to shout ‘WARNING’!!! What are the ramifications of this practice? Let me make it very clear: The New Apostles will continue to pervert scripture in an attempt to convince us all that they are speaking directly from God, and that God is doing something ‘new’ that we must accept. Thus we will all be led further and further away from ‘The Truth’ which is Christ until we are completely lost and confused. It is indeed the little ‘leaven’ that spoils the whole lump. DON’T GO THERE!! We need to pray for these men and women, and church leaders who are being duped, that the Lord will reveal the error and bring them back to the straight and narrow. Although I believe in the gifts of the Spirit, and that God heals today, and does miracles etc, and speaks personally to his children, He never contradicts the written word ‘Logos’. Unfortunately, there are those who have taken the charismatic movement from the sublime to the ridiculous. Could this be ‘the great apostasy’?
    Miriam the Learner


  3. Miriam, I recently posted on some of the Seven Mountain Mandates that this group believes. Please check them out.

  4. Martin Beckett

    Who are u people, the sarcasm with out sound argument, are you for real, i have read bills books and have heard him minister on many occasions, i have witnessed the power of God first hand, who are u people??????

  5. Tammy

    Hello Poly, I was wondering when this would be discusssed. I understand where Martin is coming from. I read one of Bill’s books, the others I tossed in the trash. I listened to a few of his CD’s, the others I tossed also. I went to several of his conferences since there were held in the church I attended (noticed the past tense) and I can say, what I experienced does not match up to the power of God and what I have experienced since leaving. The power of God (this is from my view) has been how He came and totally transformed my life after I left out of that kind of following. The all of a sudden healings, the feathers falling from the ceiling (which most of the time was within range under the balcony), the finding of jewels on the foor, but then someone would come back and ask if we found a jewel that fell out of their jewelry setting and my personal favorite, gold dust on people who had been sitting in an area where a lady who had on a shirt with a glitter pattern on it had sat. Too many people do not know the real power of God, and they consider the goose bumps, the person having their shoulder popped loose and no more pain, someone getting up and walking as the big display of power, but it isn’t. That was normal in Jesus’ life and His time. The big display of God’s power is the life transformed, the person who finds supernatural health because their soul prospered and the one who bows to no man, but only to God. You want to see real power, stop listening to the NEW word and get into the word that never changes, Jesus. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. He was never declared the New Word from God, but the Only Word.

    Who am I Martin, a person who knows just how Powerful God really is and I found that out not under anyone but Jesus. The confessions of an ex-bill johnson follower.

  6. christian

    Who is Bill Johnson? I don’t know you either Polycarp, but you seem like a well-intentioned soul. You’ve been hurt by people in the church haven’t you?

    Your points seemed to make some sense until I scrolled down to Bill’s footnotes- it sure seems like you may be seeing into things he wasn’t emphasizing in the context he seems pointed at. I actually think he had some incredible insight- I went and read the entire article on his website.

    You seem to be a man in love with Jesus, as does Bill Johnson. Perhaps we should get our eyes off each other and on Jesus alone.

  7. Pastor Chad Cline

    I am a Pastor of prayer and evangelism ministires in a Church in central ohio called Grove City church of the Nazarene. I am from a very conservative holiness denomination. Bill does not teach that denominations are bad but that the seperation that often accompanies them are bad I have followed the teachings of Bill Johnson for more than 4 years now and will tell you from experience that the message he preaches is a message of holiness and power. I have never heard anything remotely blasphemous in his teaching and beyond that I have seen nothing but a heart of humility and compassion in Bill. I have met him and founf this man and thise like Randy Clark whi he travels with to be incredibly awesome men of God. I have seen many that are jealous of their anointing that shoot at them blindly. The wierd thing I have seen from Christians is how we can all be part of the same body and yet hate it when our brother is being honored by God and men. I feel sad for thise who doubt everything that happens beyond what they can understand when John 21 says that of all the works of Christ were recorded that the world could not contain the books. No wonder the world thinks we are crazy! Shooting our own. Go figure!

      1. Pastor Chad Cline

        I refuse to make myself an enemy of anyone that professes Christ and therefore will not shoot at you Polycarp because I do not want to be a apart of sowing nor reaping that kind of seed. In 1samuel look at Davids words,

        “1 Sam 26:9 But David said to Abishai, “Don’t destroy him! Who can lay a hand on the LORD’s anointed and be guiltless? 10 As surely as the LORD lives,” he said, “the LORD himself will strike him; either his time will come and he will die, or he will go into battle and perish. 11 But the LORD forbid that I should lay a hand on the LORD’s anointed .NIV”

        Although Saul was evil he was still chisen by God and we should keep our accusation away from the Kings kids. God will choose and thus far His favor has been on Bill and his teaching as healings and miracles by the thousands are happening and if you do not believe Bill then believe his works.John 10:25

        1. Polycarp

          Chad, we also have a biblical commandment to call out these false prophets. Bill Johnson is a false prophet. He was never called of God, and if he was, then he has long since displaced it. Don’t confuse lights and slight of hand for God.

  8. Pastor Chad Cline

    By the way, I am carrying a feather in my wallet that fell on me during one of our prayer meetings in mid summer. Does this sound wierd? No it sounds like God! What I have also seen is that people get defensive just because God moved in a unique way in your life and they say it cannot be God because it has not happened to them yet. You talk about arrogant. It is arrogance to think that Gid cannot move uniquely until He clears it with us first. If God is going to do things beyond what we ask, think, or imagine then we must know that it will be what we have not yet experienced or dreamed of experiencing.

    1. Polycarp

      Then, Chad, you do not lead a holiness congregation.

      1. Pastor Chad Cline

        And since when did the Lord appoint you as the final authority? Your response is the one I expected to get and usually do get from those who are not able to cope with something beyond explanation. If God is as manageable as you claim then He cannot be God because my bible tells me His thoughts and ways are far above and beyond mine and I choose to leave them there.

        1. Polycarp

          I never said God was manageable, Chad, but we do have measures to make. Bill fails. This does not make me the final authority, as I use the final authority – the word of God.

          You shouldn’t pick and choose what parts of the bible you read, otherwise, you come up with half truths.

          1. Pastor Chad Cline

            From Genesis 1:26 until today we are created to rule on Earth and have dominion over all things. Jesus says ti His discipes that we should raise the dead, heal the sick, cleanse leoers, cast out demons, and disciples others to do the same by giving away what we have been given. Matthew 28 Jesus tells the disciples to make disciples of all nations and teach them to do everything He taught them to do. To me that means all the miracles and even the unusual signs and wonders mentioned by Paul. Mark 16 also states that the Lord worked with the disciples and confirmed their words by the signs that accompanied them. Do we not also need the same confirmation? Does John 14:12 not apply that those who believe in Him should do the same works that Chrsit did and even greater? How can we see all of this in scripture and reject it? The reason I say people reject it is because this is what I hear Bill teach every week; that we should follow the examples of Christ and our life should mimic His life on Earth because Christlikeness is the ultimate goal of Christianity. To be like Jesus is not just to carry His His meekness and kindness but also His power and Authority.

          2. Polycarp

            Chad, you realize that the covenants have changed right? And that Christ has said that His kingdom is not of this world.

            You should examine the textual criticism of Mark 16.

          3. Pastor Chad Cline

            I have studied in depth the criticism of Mark 16 and found the criticisms to be without merit due to the biblical support that is offered by the majority of scripture. What about John 14? Do we throw that out to? What about Matthew 10:7-8 are these verses not applicable either? How about Paul whi states that He does not preach with wise and persuasive words but with demonstrations of power lest their hope be in the wisdom of man instead of the power of God. Paul also states that His Kingdom is not in word but in power! You are right that the covenant did change and we are now seated in heavenly places at the right hand of our Father not in theory but in actuality. The new covenant offered and enabled me to contain the fullness of the Christ and His power. Eph 4:19
            Isaiah 45:11 also speaks to the authority that the Father makes available to us so no matter which covenant we are in our Daddy’s heart and desire is still the same. Just because man sinned and forfeited their authority does not mean the plan was aborted just delayed until Christ came and we were given back the dominion.

          4. Polycarp

            Chad, I am sure that you essentially know just everything.

            No one is denying miracles. What I deny is that Billy J. has any power to do them in the name of Christ. Further, his doctrine is flawed, he seeks ‘new’ things, etc…

            ‘Our Daddy?’ Disrespectful, don’t you think?

            Our dominion is no longer over this planet. It will be destroyed. We seek now a new heaven and a new earth. You? You and Bill still want this old rock.

  9. Pastor Chad Cline

    To declare my heavenly Father as my Daddy is not disrespectful but is in complete alignment with the scripture.according to Romans 8:15. To know Him not as my Master but as a friend is the natural progression of intimacy with Jesus in John 15:15 and this intimacy is what Bill and thuse who are aligmned with him teach. It is not the rock I am after but all the souls on it. Our dominion in over this world and the spiritual realm. The scripture declares satan to be the god of this world and we have been commissioned to destroy the works of the devil and therefore take back dominion in order to win as many to Christ as possible.I can see that your mind is made uo about Bill and thise who agree with him but I would greatky encourage you to soften your heart long enough to hear his heart so you can know where he is coming from without judging him beifre you know the man.

    1. Polycarp

      Chad, it is not in alignment with anything but the tripe which passes for preaching these days from such people as Joel Osteen. I can see how blind you are to the things of God, and how you have misused the teachings of Christ, ignoring vital passages, listening to the minions of the adversary, to form your theology. We wrestle against the things unseen, yet you want us to see to take over the things seen. Christ said that His kingdom is not of this world. You want to see it made so. You want a city here, not on the other side. You so misuse the bible to fit your own political agenda that it is a shame you can call yourself a pastor. Chad, I pray for souls like you.

      1. Pastor Chad Cline

        Everything I do not know but one thing I do know and it is my Father in heaven. Political agendas I do not have as I am one of the least political correct people you will ever meet. I agree that we wrestle with the unseen but the trusth is Christ created all things not just the unseen. I fight for dominion in all arenas not just the millinium but also here on earth. If Jesus did not love those in the natural here and now He would not have given His life for the here and now. Fact is that people live in the here and now and we have an assignment to do what we can to go get them. Jesus said to many that His Kingdom had come upon them adn His Kingdom had came near them. jesus brought His unseen Kingdom into this seen Kingdom to give us and example of what His Kingdom looked like. A place where there are no blind eyes, deaf ears, cancers, malaria, etc.and then tolf us to pray that His Kingdom would come ON EARTH as IT IS IN HEAVEN. If Christ were not concerned for thos world why would He tell us to pray that His Kingdom would come hear? It was so we could demonstrate the realities of heaven and confirm the word we preach and that Christ is the Lord of all instead of simply asking people to take our word for it and becoming great public speakers.. Poly, it is obvious you walk into this conversation with your mind closed to anything outside of your predetermined conclusion. As a word of wisdom, be careful who you pass judgment on, they just might be His Kids and as a father I can say that I am not happy when people come against my kids.

        1. Polycarp

          Political agendas has nothing to doing with being political correct. It is your dominionism which is a political agenda.

          ‘An assignment?’ How is that biblical?

          Chad, you are so very confused, and it is very difficult to addressed all your wrongs.

          Oh, wow, and the ‘be careful’ warning. Honestly, Chad, you need to approach Christ for real this time.

          1. Pastor Chad Cline

            Poly, I will pray for you, I will pray for you. I feel sorry for you and am genuinely burdened over the level of anger and insecurity I hear in you. Bkessings!

          2. Polycarp

            Chad, trust me, I am secure in Christ, which is where you need to get to. Leave Bill and his garbage alone. Come to Christ.

  10. Wow

    Polycarp is this what you do all day… criticize other Christians for doing things you have yet to accomplish? stop hating on Christians… oh and by the way learn how to Love and Honor…

    1. Polycarp

      No worries bballer04, I corrected your misspelling of my name.

      I wouldn’t call Bill Johnson a ‘Christian’, more like a charlatan. Can you prove otherwise?

      1. Wow


        Look I’m not gonna try to argue, fight, or whatever… if you’ve never met the guy, spent time with him, gone to his church, and so on – Then give him some grace… at least if you are going to pick apart things that he writes, go ahead and make an attempt to meet the guy or something…

        Sorry for the misspelling of your name it wasn’t intentional

        Calling Bill a Charlatan is kinda funny… To say this man puts on a show for money is funny… He is from Weaverville CA… He has a highered lawyer who works with nonprofits and determines how much someone like Bill should make… Bill give over 40% of his wages…

        Just for once I would like to see Christians not pick-apart each other… its ridiculous and how can he be a false prophet if he has never claimed to be the Christ? and He gives Jesus all the Glory and Honor for all miracles that happen?

        1. Polycarp


          You haven’t shown me in Scripture where the things that Bill does and says, namely his false prophecies, is Scriptural. A man is judge by works only on this side of eternity. Remember, Christ as already answered your question –

          On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ (Mat 7:22-23 NLT)

          1. Wow

            That scripture states that we can have a life of the miraculous outside of relationship… If we are in right relationship think of how much further we can go and operate in!

            Let God be the judge and not you… You don’t know Bill J… You Don’t know how his relationship with God is… All YOU do is pick apart what He writes or says and compare it to you interpretation of life…

            Your a loved man, so don’t allow past hurts or discouragements set the standard or your belief systems…

            Sorry I didn’t know I was required to use scripture in this discussion…

            but here you go… just for you

            Eph 3 – I pray this over you Sir…
            (that) He (God) would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

            have a great life… I hope you don’t end up in heaven and see what you missed out on in life!

          2. Polycarp

            BBballer, first, if you state ‘scripture says’ can do not back it up, then you are essentially speaking a lie. Consider the bible says that the false prophet will come with false signs and wonders, and others before him and after him the same, you have proven yourself ready to accept the False Prophet.

            Actually, the bible says to try the spirits and to guard the flock. We cannot judge the character of a person, but we can speak as to whether or not they are doing something wrong.

            You are required to use Scripture if you think that what Bill is doing is of God. Since you have no biblical foundation, you don’t have an argument.

            Your prayers are in vain, as you clearly reject God.

          3. bbballer04

            bhahahhahahahahahahaha… ur hilarious!

          4. Polycarp

            Ah…and sanity too I see.

  11. Angie

    Dear Mr. Polycarp,

    I recently left my central ohio church after “testing the spirits”
    and finding them to be servants of Satan, preaching a different
    gospel than the gospel of the Bible, and worshipping a different Jesus.

    I thank you for speaking out against heretics and false-teachers who
    are infaltrating our churches, and our Nazarene denomination.
    We need more Watchmen on the Wall like yourself who are willing to
    admonish these prideful pastors, and call them to repentance. Better
    to be admonished our brethren now, than to stand before the Lord with the
    souls of many on your hands because you caused them to stumble into the
    hands of the enemy and are accused of idolatry.

    Keep fighting. Back EVERYTHING up with the Word! This apostasy is
    THE GREAT APOSTASY, and the blood of many souls rests upon these
    false-teachers if they do not come to repentance. We must warn them,
    rebuke them, avoid them, and name them by name….this is all in
    accoradance to God’s Holy Word.

    Visit ConcernedNazarenes.org, or Take A Stand Ministries for additional
    information about this end-times apostasy and how you can stay informed
    and involved.

    God Bless You!

    1. Polycarp

      Thank you, Angie. Sometimes, one needs to hear nice words. I’ll look into that group and see if I can post on it.

      1. Angie

        Re-reading my own comment, I need to make a correction.

        These men are NOT our brethren. They are false-teachers. And
        they will be judged accordingly. We have a responsibility to
        warn them to seek repentance, to warn others of their heresies,
        to call them out by name, and stay away from them! This is all
        Biblical, and found in almost every book of the New Testament.

        I pray for men like you, Chad Cline, that you will truly seek
        the Lord, and come to repentance for the MANY that you have
        caused to stumble. The road is narrow. We need the true gospel
        to be taughted and preached to a body of Bible believing
        Christians who are hungry for God’s pure and infallable Word.
        We are not hungry for the gosepl of Bill Johnson, knowing that
        he might just send us down the broad path that leads to an
        eternal hell….etneral….that’s forever and ever and ever.


  12. We are the ones who are telling you the truth, who have not been fooled by good showmanship.


  13. Christian, everyone has been hurt by church people, but that is besides the point. Bill Johnson is in love with power and another Jesus, the NAR. His doctrine is false, and his lies easy to see through.


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