402 Comments

  1. average bear

    One thing I have learned is a good translation is important. I use a KJ Companion Bible but I have several translations, as well as a Strong’s exhaustive concordance.
    But if you, as you say, find the Bible wanting, then maybe your problem is with either/or God or misunderstanding God and the Bible doesn’t make sense to you.
    “Fruit” is figurative speech just as the Tree of Life
    is representative of Christ.
    Being taught that Eve ate a fruit and was punished makes God sound mean, when he gave the regular fruit to be eaten. It wasn’t fruit per se but ..remember reading this? You will know them by their fruit??
    God also compares himself to a evergreen tree and a blind man that was healed, at first, saw men walking as trees. There is lots of figurative language in
    the Bible as well as passages where God changes the subject briefly. Like when we talk, we sometimes change the subject and then go back to the former subject.
    You need to study for yourself, Polycarp.
    You may think you’re doing a good work but you would really know for sure if you read and study the Bible instead of slamming PM and SC.

    Reply
  2. average bear

    PC; I said
    “Fruit” is figurative speech just as the Tree of Life
    is representative of Christ.
    Just as….I said…giving you an example of figurative speech used in the Bible.
    Ditto for you and reading skills…
    Eve ate of the tree of good and evil which was of the devil.
    We disagree as to who or what the tree of good and evil was/is, whereas, we do not disagree with who the Tree of Life is.
    3 persons were punished after the incident; Adam, Eve and the serpent. Read carefully what God said to the serpent. One of the tall tales is believing the serpent was a magical snake. And the tree of good and evil also was pretty magical as trees go…hmmmm…..
    I do study for myself, PC, I trust no man but I trust God. Fortunately, I answet to God not man for my salvation.

    Reply
    1. Kevin DeFranco

      Dude you are spot on! unfortunately, this guy is a HATER and will never get past that hate to see the truth. He’ll keep hating pastor Murray til he dies. then and only then will he see how wrong he has been. Polycarp. let’s see a carp is a scavenger fish. does that mean he is a many headed scavenger? just wondering.

      Reply
      1. Daniel

        AMEN BROTHER! This dude is twisted and sure is focused on pastor murray some thing fierce. So sad. And so much for loving our fellow brother. That’s out the freakin window. What happened to Christ crucified and resurrected? If that is the foundation of ur faith…..all the other is simply filler and fluff. But for the record, i have watched pastor Murray for 20yrs and he has NEVER NOT ONE TIME EVER SAID ANYTHING BUT GREAT THINGS ABOUT JEWS AND ISRAEL NOR EVER SAID ANYTHING EVEN APPROACHING A RACIST REMARK. And i just wonder how he will answer to God for intentionally causing so much strife amongst His people rather than focusing on Him rather than dogging a great man that dedicated his life to His service. PATHETIC!

        Reply
  3. average bear

    I never said that the Bible covered up anything.
    I do say that the Bible is not a dry history lesson. It says that God would put
    enmity between the serpent and the woman; her seed and the serpent’s seed. Now, many religions would have you believe that God didn’t mean that literally. And why not? In Matt. Jesus is talking to the leaders of the church and said plainly that their father was the devil. Again, many churches will tell you the Jesus was just kiddin’, it was just figuratively speaking.
    Oh yeah? Where do they get that? And the parable, translated to the apostles about the seed; the devil planted evil seed in the world. Many churches will tell you that the parable he translated wasn’t literal.
    Where is the proof that you are right and I am wrong.
    Listen, these sites that slam pastor Murray are not believeable except to the ignorant. Anyone that has listened to pastor Murray for some time, will learn that YES, he does believe in 3 persons in one GOD, NO, he is not a racist, Yes, he believes in self defense and so do I, he doesn’t beg for money. That right there deserves a medal. When’s the last time you slammed a preacher that spends all his air time begging for money? I thought not.
    You don’t want to listen to him, one word: Don’t.
    What’s it to yah?

    Reply
  4. average bear

    Kenites are sons of Cain.
    Know anyone that is the son of Cain?
    I don’t honestly know for 100% sure what color they are, as that’s not really an issue. I also don’t know how many male kenites there are compared to female kenites. Does that make me a sexist?
    The “seed” is Christ? Then it is figurative speech to you.
    Insulting me accomplishes nothing. It only diminishes you and as for me…I’m moving on….
    Average Bear

    Reply
  5. Deb

    Again,,, putting your trust in Man,, be he preacher or not.. God said to put your trust in him and NOT Man….. sounds like you guys are worshiping Murray instead of the Father… tread lightly, read the Bible for yourself,don’t put all your trust in Man… Any one that teaches Racism,is not called of God…all I have to say…

    Reply
    1. Lerojist

      I’ve listened to Pastor Murray, and I like his teaching, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. I’ve learned more from him than I have ever learned in church. There are two other pastors that teach the same as him.

      What is racism?

      Multiculturalism, intermingling, intermarriage is the tool of the communist/marxist/liberal to destroy this white Judeo/Christian nation. The ungodly communist groups want to literally destroy faith in God. In the end times, starvation will not be for food, but for starvation of God’s Word, wisdom.

      Let’s face it every race has their own history, their beliefs are different. Putting it at a personal level, instead of a nation: In your home, you believe a certain way, yet you have guests that come in your home, and disrupt your home with their beliefs, causing turmoil. Remember several heads to a body makes for a monster.

      I don’t dislike other peoples, but I say if you come into my home, you live by my rules, assimilate to our culture. Every nation makes their laws, according to their FAITH. This U.S. was created, built by the white European, rooted in the Judeo/Christian faith. The Bible warned there will be those that want what you have, and you’ll be lucky to keep it.

      If a racist is a person that wants to preserve their civil culture, their heritage, their language, their FAITH, you may call me a racist….so be it.

      An ungodly enemy within has infiltrated throughout our institutions…government being one, education another, entertainment, media, and more…

      The Bible says, for those that can see and hear, HEED the warnings.

      Ungodly Liberalism has taken over the nation.

      Reply
        1. Kevin DeFranco

          Lois could be a lot more deluded, she could be like YOU!

          Reply
        2. Daniel

          Ur a pathetic loser and u really need to read ur bible and find out what it says and causing strife amongst the bretheren. Or maybe u aren’t a Christ follower at all. A kenite possibly? Things that make u go hhhhuuummmmm. This is what i can’t wait for though…..the day we ALL get to watch u answer for all the drama and disention amoung believers rather than focusing on doing His will. C u then pal.

          Reply
        3. Kevin DeFranco

          She could have been Joel, Joel, Joel….hahahahahaaa!

          Reply
    2. Kevin DeFranco

      Nobody worships Murray, and he’ll be the first to tell you not to, he tells you to check him out. he merely puts power into YOUR hands by showing you how to breakdown words to their roots, and rightly divide the Word of God. He doesn’t declare himself as the one and only. He encourages students to do their own work to discover the Bible. I’ve watched Shepards Chapel since 1990 and not once heard him say anything racist. It’s easy to check this out, he broadcasts 5 days a week on direct t.v. and dish. The only remarks he has made is that God made all the races and is proud of all of them and each is equally noble and pleasing in the eyes of God. Don’t take my word for it, or the hater that is on this site. check it out yourself.

      Reply
        1. Kevin DeFranco

          You should know, you racist faggot. hahahahahahaaaa!!!!!

          Reply
  6. Dudley

    I believe that Arnold Murray’s other son defends his father’s racist cult on the internet and goes by a cyber moniker as “smyrna” as well as hundreds of other pseudonyms. All in the family.

    Reply
    1. woodrow steadman

      yes he has another son david no one will tell where he is or what ahppend to him

      Reply
      1. Jeannie

        David was an ill man, and he passed away.

        Reply

      1. Hey, “Mr. King,” – Keep the vulgarity off of my platform. With every defense of of Murray, more vulgarity is to ensue, but the other, the profanity, don’t do it.

        Oh, and Murray is a devil.

        Reply
        1. Daniel

          Crackpot is vulgarity now huh? Ur the devil not pastor M. Moran! And i hope u don’t like it. Pray i don’t use the words i Really want to use. Mmmwwwaaaa

          Reply
    2. Kevin DeFranco

      WOW! you are really perceptive. He signed one David Ken Mitchell Murray. You are right on your game! Too bad you are a lying dog. You make things up, listen to other liars and spread it like wild fire.Your time will come.

      Reply
  7. Dudley

    I’m sure some of the posters above are him. He never goes anywhere on the net without his self created cheerleader squad. He will do anything to destroy anyone who speaks negatively about Arnold Murray.

    Reply

  8. I saw on your web site that your doctorine beleives in speaking in tongues. There is a pastor on TV named K. Thomas who speaks in tongues so could you tell me what he is saying. To me it sounds like nonsense.

    Reply
    1. Jeannie

      Coffee, that is nonsense. If you read what Christ said about talking in tongues, He was talking about talking to people in their own languages, not some fake language. He told them if they went to a foreign country, to take an interpreter so the people would know what he was sayingf.,

      Reply
    2. Kevin DeFranco

      The Cloven Tongue over the apostle’s heads was The Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit made sure that every person present understood what they were saying. Anybody seen a cloven tongue over K Thomas’s head? Anyone else’s head who claims to speak in tongues? Did everyone there understand it?

      Reply
    3. Kevin DeFranco

      Coffee any one can do the jibberish they call for with a little practice. In fact, they encourage you to build your vocabulary by practicing. Why is that necessary if it comes from God, He doesn’t give partial gifts. Try it and see if you understand it. The cloven tongue needs no interpreter, everyone can understand it.

      Reply
  9. Dora May Henaire

    Here is what Arnold has to say about racism!

    In Answer to Critics
    by Pastor Arnold B. Murray

    I make it a policy to never mention individual denominations, groups or single out individuals by name; however since 1991 several so called “Christian Research” organizations have willingly quoted each others’s falsehoods and labels, without direct research, until they are blindly printing outright lies. This has gone on long enough now that I have categorized some glaring examples of such inaccuracies to facilitate making a clear Biblical response. I am not writing this document because I seek nor want any organization’s endorsement, but I wish to point out these inaccuracies for intelligent Bible students who love to study God’s Word. The Shepherd’s Chapel Network now has millions of serious Bible students who study daily with us. It is because I love each of you who desire a deeper study into our Father’s Word that I feel I owe this response to you and especially to new students of the Shepherd’s Chapel.

    I also should point out to those not familiar with the Shepherd’s Chapel that we are completely independent; therefore we are not affiliated with any other church, denomination or group. As a matter of record, the only group of which I am a member is with the “Chosin Few” which is a group of Korean War veterans comprised of various military factions who fought in one of the more famous battles of that war. I am very proud to have served as a U.S. Marine in this severe winter battle in which approximately 12,000 of our troops faced a massive surprise attack by an estimated 120,000 of the Chinese communist enemy. Although suffering many casualties, the Marines and our British allies inflicted far more damage to the Chinese and were able to ultimately escape (with our dead and injured) from the Chosin Reservoir where we were at a grave disadvantage. Despite being wounded I survived this war because, I believe, the Lord had further plans and a purpose for my life. I have never forgotten the discipline of the U.S. Marine Corps and the lessons learned in war. If I teach like a Marine DI (Drill Instructor) it is with love because I know first hand the value of well educated and trained troops. In fact the root word behind the word “disciples” is “discipline”. The Bible frequently uses military terms to convey how we must prepare to face spiritual warfare. As Christians our ultimate enemy is not “flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, to wit we must put on the whole armour of God” (Ephesians 6:10-19).

    I believe many of the inaccurate perceptions of what I teach at the Shepherd’s Chapel could be resolved quickly if those interested would simply request our “Statement of Faith” which has been freely available for many years. If you have not already requested it I would encourage you to do so. But perhaps the best way to evaluate what I teach is to simply listen for a while. One thing you will quickly notice is that I like to field questions which in my opinion is a fine way for the listener to test what is being taught. Since the beginning of my Bible teaching ministry, over 50 years ago, I have always insisted on taking questions from the congregation. This important part of teaching ensures that everyone has an opportunity to ask key questions, then hear and judge the knowledge of the teacher for themselves. Now let’s take a look at some of the usual points of criticism that some of these so-called “Christian Research” people seem to steal from one another in their rush to reproduce lies against myself and the Shepherd’s Chapel.

    The Trinity or Godhead

    I teach YHVH (“I Am That I Am” and Hebrew for the Sacred Name of God), Yahshua (Hebrew for God’s Saviour Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. When you speak the Truth it is the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself through you. Matthew 10:20 explicitly says “For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.” The meaning, of course, refers to the Holy Spirit as in Mark 13:11 which notes, “but when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do you premeditate; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost (Spirit).” I make no apology for teaching the Godhead in this manner, and I certainly do not need an endorsement or approval or further interpretation of my words from any man or group of research witch hunters.

    Also, I have never taught that men were little gods. It would be a lie for someone to say so. I do teach all souls were created by our Father. A Christian that would not teach this fact would have a big problem with Scripture. Example: Jeremiah 1:5 says, “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Another example: Ephesians 1:4 says, “According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.”

    Recommended additional study lectures on audio CD:

    #30574, “Nature of God, El Shaddai
    #30417, “Elect”

    Racism

    To say that I teach racism or practice racism is another outright lie. We have people of all races that attend and study with the Shepherd’s Chapel. It is very simple to prove this statement. We televise our annual Passover meetings including video interviews of many of the thousands who attend. Order a video tape of any of these interviews and you will see people of all races which effectively documents the falseness of any charges that I teach racism (a sample of Passover Interviews is also offered at the end of this document). God’s Word directly teaches that our Heavenly Father created all the races and that it was good, (Genesis 1:27-28, 31). People of all nations and races shall be in the Temple of the Lord throughout eternity (Revelation 21:22-27).

    Reply
  10. Dora May Henaire

    Racism

    To say that I teach racism or practice racism is another outright lie. We have people of all races that attend and study with the Shepherd’s Chapel. It is very simple to prove this statement. We televise our annual Passover meetings including video interviews of many of the thousands who attend. Order a video tape of any of these interviews and you will see people of all races which effectively documents the falseness of any charges that I teach racism (a sample of Passover Interviews is also offered at the end of this document). God’s Word directly teaches that our Heavenly Father created all the races and that it was good, (Genesis 1:27-28, 31). People of all nations and races shall be in the Temple of the Lord throughout eternity (Revelation 21:22-27).

    Reply
  11. Dudley

    Arnold Murray has falsely claimed that the two groups of Jews that comprise 95% of all who consider themselves to be Jews, the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim, are actually “Kenites”, literal descendants of Satan…. THAT IS RACIST AS WELL AS ANTISEMITIC. Murray has twisted the Bible to say that blacks, orientals and non German and Celtic whites are not descended from Adam and Eve but instead some nameless subhuman creations before Adam and Eve and THAT IS RACIST! And if you believe the perversions of the Bible that Murray preaches then YOU ARE RACIST!

    The only lies are Murray’s. No matter how many times Murray proclaims he is not a racist it matters not. The evidence is clear by his own words. Arnold Murray is a RACIST!

    Reply
    1. Jeannie

      Dudley, you will answer to God for lying about this.

      Reply
  12. E.T.

    Deb, this isn’t about putting anyone before “God”. This site is about someone making up lies about a man and men and woman speaking out against the lies.

    Polycarp, you seem to think you know about Paster Arnold Murray. But, the people that know him say you don’t. How can you refuse to believe someone’s opinions and truths?

    After reading this article, and your blog, I see that you are looking for a fight. You don’t preach the Word, nor do you study the Word. You throw out your acquisitions with your one verse, ripped from the Bible into your blog, there and the rest of your articles are backed up with a lot of hoopla.

    So, you want to be known for your words. Paster Murray doesn’t want to be in the spotlight. He proves it by not letting his private life go on display as so many others have, before him, in broadcasting.

    Those of us who have studied the Bible through Paster Murray know how you’ve twisted the truth above.

    You want something to argue about? Start with President Obama and how his actions go against his words. You won’t be held so accountable when the time comes.

    E.T.

    Reply
  13. Dora Henaire

    Open your eyes and ears before it is to late! I’ll prey for you!

    Reply
  14. ALongfellow

    You quoted a different parable in Luke, where seeds are put for something else. That’s not how they are used in Matt 13. That’s why Paul told Timothy to rightly…oh, you already said that.

    You said, “Their doctrine against Christ was adversial and in contrast to whom the Jews should have followed – Abraham.”

    But the fact that the doctrine of the religious leaders was adversarial was never a secret. Search the Scriptures: God sent His “servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them”.

    Yet, in the parable of Matt 13, Jesus uttered “things which have been kept SECRET from the foundation of the world.” (Mat 13:35).

    So, I suggest that your answer may be incomplete. Not entirely wrong… we would expect an adversarial doctrine with either interpretation.

    “We may take the seed of the serpent not as Jews or whatever Murray has told you that it is and serpents or those that follow the adversary.”

    I may? Who said so?

    Reply
  15. E.T.

    The “seeds” are children. Read the scripture!

    The parables were not for everyone to understand. When in private the disciples asked for him to interpret the parables. He did.

    Poly you have a wit for twisting the words. Rightly divide the word. There are many hidden codes in The Word. Good luck on your mission.

    Reply
  16. E.T.

    John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.

    Why don’t they understand him? Keep reading.

    John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    Do you know who was the murderer from the beginning? Cain. The Devil’s son.

    They may call themselves Jews but, they do not come from the tribe of Judah. They are the “seed” from the Devil. Cain’s children.

    Throughout the chapter in Matt 13 Jesus is speaking in parables. The disciples ask for the meanings and why some don’t have ears to hear and eyes to see. Jesus tells them it wasn’t for everyone.

    Matt 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

    Matt 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

    Matt 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];

    Matt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

    Matt 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

    Matt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

    One of those things that offend are the preachers that go around lying and not speaking the truths from God. How can you read these words and make your own interpretation? There are “the tares” the Devil’s children in this world. They were born from woman. Eve.

    Hope this helps.

    Reply
  17. E.T.

    LOL @ “I am not sure I can pray for you.” How holier than thou are you?

    I don’t call Abraham the son of the devil; for the simple fact he was not born from Eve and Satan. Abraham was from genealogy Adam and Eve.

    Go read to see if Cain is even named in Adam’s genealogy line.

    Satan wanted to defile the womb that Christ would come from. You obviously do not believe Our Father is capable of knowing this from the beginning.

    This doctrine is from The Holy Bible. The Word.

    You certainly do not have ears to hear and eyes to see.

    Pastor Murray teaches from The Word. You argue against The Word.

    The Moral of this story…. Leave poor Polycarp to himself. He’ll find out soon enough that the truth was taught from the Shepherd’s Chapel. :)

    I’ll pray for you, goodbye.

    Reply
  18. E.T.

    ok you want to call names? Let’s fight the good fight! The book you are reading isn’t very good at its translations. Read, with eye and ears if you can.

    Genesis 4:1 Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.”

    As Eve continued her labor she bore the another Son. That’s right TWINS!!

    I hope you are ready to be slapped by The Word :)

    Adam was NEVER Cain’s father. The praise came from Eve and the help from the LORD.

    In your ignorance you cannot see that even the LORD loved Cain!!

    Reply
    1. Lerojist

      Adam was not Cain’s father. Abel was Adam’s son.

      Satan was Cain’s father.

      Seth was Adam’s son.

      Reply
        1. E

          Wow Joel, just ran across this article and am amazed that you are still trolling around since 2008! It’s 2014 (well, just about 2015) and you are still calling people names. Wow seven years worth of hatred! Please, please, please grow up. Why do people like you exist??? I bet you claim to be a Christian, right? But really, think about it.

          If there is one thing Mr. Murray did teach and say was to get into the Word & STAY there! How about you? Enlighten us with something about the Word instead about ‘the speck in your brothers eye.”

          What say you, oh perfect one?

          In fact, what church do you teach in??? I’d love to hear what YOU have to say and teach about when it comes to the difficult passages within the bible. Please share.

          Oh, and Editor, please leave all the comments up so people like me can hear both sides of the conversation. I understand that maybe profanity needs to be curbed but it seems like the responses have been deleted from time to time.

          Reply

          1. I am the editor, “E” <—- chastisement from an anonymous troll… hahahahhahaha

          2. Kevin DeFranco

            Joel Watts….sounds like something you vomit after eating cess pool pie.

          3. Lerojist

            I think Pastor Murray was an excellent teacher!


          4. he wasn’t. and he is dead. his soul will be in purgatory for years, maybe centuries.

          5. Kevin DeFranco

            You poor pathetic fool. There is no purgatory, there is no limbo. Ecclesiastes 12:6,7 tells us when this clay pot breaks,when the silver cord parts; this flesh body goes back to the earth and the soul,and spirit goes back to Him that created it. There are two sides of paradise separated by a gulf. where you go depends on how you lived. On the great day of judgement you will be given eternity or go into the lake of fie. Period.

          6. Kevin DeFranco

            nothing beyond life!…no heaven, no hell! And I’m the moronic gobshite!!!! you are a psycho.


          7. said the guy who is leaving lots of comments on a blog and have asked others to help you….

  19. E.T.

    again…… another verse to help you “SEE”

    Genesis 4:25 Adam knew his wife again. She gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, “for God has appointed me another child instead of Abel, for Cain killed him.”

    Cain killed Adam’s son.

    You are so filled with hate, Polycarp you are not seeing the writing on the wall.

    ….still praying for you. So that anyone in your path doesn’t learn from your twisted and hateful teachings.

    Reply
  20. E.T.

    Yes, usually, twins do mean from the same mother and father. But the pregnancy Eve was carrying was from two different men. Yes, Satan is just a man.

    In one out of four hundred pregnancies a “bi-paternal twinning” happens. Meaning there is a different father for each twin. Idential twins are the only set of twins that cannot have different fathers. But if the woman has sex with more than one man she can in fact get pregnant with more than one baby….. separate eggs.

    Cain killing Abel didn’t have anything to do with sex. You are so obsessed with the “sexual” part of this story.

    Here you’ve opened another part of the Bible that most preachers do not preach about…. “The Adam” formed on the 8th day. There was not a garden made on the 6th day. There was no farm animals created on the 6th day. There were “no farmer” in the garden created with the rest of Adams on the 6th day.

    Read, Polycrap, Read. Ask for guidance and a fine teacher like Pastor Murray. :)

    Praying for you….

    Reply
  21. E.T.

    You ask me the question because you know I do have scripture to back me up. :) Only the Devil or one of his little peons would throw out so much anger and hate.

    You’ve got what you’ve learned burnt into your heart. Yup, the Bible is pretty straight forward. You would think you could “get it” but, I’m afraid you’ve got something wrong with sex and the acts in which babies are made.

    You having my IP# and showing my state or even a city nearby my home doesn’t cause the fear in me that you’d hoped it would. You have shown yourself to be many things now with the addition of theif I guess is no big deal to you. :)

    You want more doncha? Here we go with the sex topic you have such a problem with…

    Angels ( Sons of God ) did in fact have sex with woman. They concived and their babies were called Nephilim. It says so in the Bible. Its the reason why the flood of Noah happened. I’ll let you look that up for yourself.

    Speaking about Angels and sex….

    Another story in the Bible tells us that men wanted to have sex with the angels that were visiting lots family. He tried to give his daughters to the men.

    And there came two angels to Sodom. … And they turned in unto him, and entered into his house. … The men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. — Genesis 19:1-4

    “know them” means sex.

    Hope this helps you in your quest to find “sex” in the Bible. :)

    Reply
  22. E.T.

    The Sons of Seth Heresy

    Beginning around 400 A.D., portions of the church began to take an unusual stand against the angelic interpretation of Genesis 6. Rather than teaching what the text clearly says (especially when examined in Hebrew, below), and what had been the Orthodox Jewish and early Christian view for all time previous, the idea was introduced that this passage “really” referred to the lineages of Cain and Seth, the surviving sons of Adam. They said it simply means that the “rebellious” lines of Cain were marrying the “faithful” descendants of Seth. The unfounded presumption of this theory is that ALL of Seth’s descendants were godly, while ALL of Cain’s were rebellious. While a sketchy pattern can be drawn from Genesis, it is really a ridiculous injustice to the concept of free will and of God’s dealing with individuals to dogmaticly hold to this position. It further implies that Sethites were somehow immune to the effects of the Fall itself.

    http://www.alienresistance.org/sons_of_seth.htm

    You really need to update your logic and reasoning. The children from the union the woman and angels had begat the “giant”. It says so in the Bible.

    READ YOUR BIBLE!! LOL :) You’re spreading lies.

    ps. I still don’t agree that Cain is the son of Adam. …Even though this article says so. But it does say all of Cains sons were bad boys. hmmmm makes you think… at least it does me :)

    Reply
  23. E.T.

    “This doctrine is perverse, and destructive. I do not know why they let you live in Minnesota – I thought that they were somewhat civilized in that part of the country.”

    This from a Pastor. Again you didn’t cause the scare you intended.

    Reply
  24. E.T.

    So, you know everything about Star Wars and the fictional charactors in the movie. But, why did you not comment on the lies the church has made about the “Sons of Seth”?

    Do I believe in UFO’S? Read the book of Ezekiel and tell me if you believe in The Word.

    You twist everything to your own spectrum. You are certainly not reading The Word from our Father.

    I see where you have cried about personal attacks against you but, that’s your MO…..a “Projectionist”

    I see the other articles you’ve put on your webpage. You don’t have a good outlook and you see the worst. If you really do pray you really should ask for guidance.

    READ.

    Reply
  25. PeaceBlessin

    E.T. God Bless You. As you know God has put the spirit of slumber on certain people so as not to overload their donkey….I can’t believe anybody that can read the Bible for themselves would believe anything Polycarp says.

    E.T. you are doing so well with him but you should stop casting pearls before swine. I will join you in praying for him.

    Reply
  26. PeaceBlessin

    I believe in God and that all knowledge and wisdom comes from God.

    Reply
  27. PeaceBlessin

    Your opinion relating to Pastor Murray is of no use to me. If you truly are a teacher of God’s word, spend time teaching instead of worrying about Pastor Murray. God takes care of his own.

    Pray for knowledge and understanding and God will bless you if it is His will for your life.

    Reply
  28. PeaceBlessin

    I believe that Ezekiel did a good job describing the vehicle used as a means of transportation. UFO is a man’s term, I believe that God knows exactly what the vehicle is.

    Reply
  29. PeaceBlessin

    I don’t agree that Pastor’s Murray’s teaching of the Bible is garbage as he teaches it chapter by chapter and verse by verse and he instructs students to not just listen to him but to read the Bible for yourself and pray and ask God for his help in gaining wisdom, knowledge and understanding for yourself by reading God’s word. He’s right as I’ve learn to recognize false teachings and therefore can discern what I believe in accordance with God’s word and not in accordance with some human beings lack of knowledge.

    Reply
  30. PeaceBlessin

    Polycarp…Again, ask God to help you in his understanding of His word. You can be entertaining but I am going to go read God’s word. I pray God continues to work with you. The Bible teaches that all can have salvation though repentese and belief in Jesus Christ.

    Reply
  31. PeaceBlessin

    Polycarp, thanks for your prayers. Again, I gain my wisdom, knowledge and understanding through God’s blessings through the reading of his Word not just by listening to what others say about God’s Word. When I have trouble understanding I pray to God to open my eyes and he does that for me. When teachings don’t line up with God’s word it’s easy for me to discern what to believe. When the end comes I’ll have my gospel armor own and ready to let the Holy Spirit use me. I am sad for those who believe that they will be flying off somewhere.

    Reply

  32. Kandy, do you believe the serpent seed doctrine, in which certain races of men and attributed to intercourse between Eve and the adversary?

    Reply
  33. PeaceBlessin

    Of course you know that the end is just the beginning for those who believe in the true Christ, right?

    Reply

  34. I have always enjoyed the ‘The End’ that publishers put at the end of Revelation – as if somehow, the beginning of our return to walk with God is the end.

    Reply
  35. PeaceBlessin

    I believe that Eve had sex with Satan and also with her husband Adam which resulted in her giving birth to twins..Cain, Satan’s seed (child) and Able, Adam’s seed (child). Cain murdered his brother Abel which makes Cain the first murderer. God then blessed Adam and Eve with another child, Seth.

    I believe that God created all the races of people and he looked and it was Good. I believe God established the seed (birth) line through which Christ would come through Eve the mother of all living which basically means if you aren’t in Christ by faith and grace you do not have eternal life.

    I believe that the false Christ returns first and a lot of Christians will be deceived because they aren’t being fed the true word of God.

    Reply
  36. PeaceBlessin

    I believe that God’s word is true and I am blessed that I live in a Country where I have the freedom to study his word for myself. I seek God and he blesses me with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding of his word. We all have to rightly divide the word of God which can be done through discerning the time, the subject and the object. God also provides us through his written word with two or more witnesses to assist us in properly dividing his word.

    Christ tells us through the word that many (false teachers) will come in his name. I use basic common sense in my study of God’s word and what you teach just doesn’t make sense to me. You also keep talking about aliens, abductions, UFO’s and ET…

    I don’t believe God’s word is confusing.

    Reply
  37. PeaceBlessin

    Polycarp, my partner is God through my belief and faith in Jesus Christ. You know that serpent is one of the many names God identifies satan with.

    I am not your judge. I use God’s word to discern false teachings and leave the judging to our heavenly Father.

    Father I think you for all your wisdom and knowledge of your word as it is written. I pray for all to come to know you through your word and I ask for your continued blessings in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

    Reply
  38. PeaceBlessin

    You keep asking me about UFO’s. Polycarp, I’ll take my own advice and stop casting pearls before swine. God will be the final judge of false teachers whether it be you or Pastor Murray.

    Reply
  39. PeaceBlessin

    Polycarp, in my own words, I accept no man’s statement. I accept God’s word.

    In accordance with God’s word, Angels are God’s children/servants.

    In accordance with God’s word, God took Enoch.

    Reply
  40. PeaceBlessin

    Polycarp, I read the Bible and ask God to assist me in my understanding of his word. I have no problem with the way Pastor Murray teaches God’s word. From all of your postings, I see that you disagree with Pastor Murray’s teachings. From my perspective it is not about you or Pastor Murray but about our Father in Heaven who gives us all free will and He alone will be the final judge.

    Reply
  41. Tammy

    I have read a lot about this satan/eve issue on here, which I think is a bunch of stupidity mixed with lies from satan himself to draw attention away from the real issue…What does this man say about Jesus? Does he even teach from the New Testament? Are you absolutely sure, would bet your eternity on it, that this AM is right on it? After what I have read from some of you, my opinion is your blindly following someone just because you need to.

    E.T. your phone is ringing. You better phone home.

    Poly, thank you for standing up for what is right. And your right, this man cannot be related to Andrew Murray, he does not have the ability to measure up.

    Reply
  42. PeaceBlessin

    Tammy, read your Bible for yourself and ask God to provide wisdom, knowledge and understanding of his word.

    Don’t depend on any one person to tell you about God. Read his word for yourself…seek him and you will find him. Let God lead you with the Holy Spirit.

    Reply
  43. Tammy

    One more question, if you do believe that the words eat of a tree as meaning intercourse, which I think is just totally off the wall, then which tree did Eve have intercourse with which was the knowledge of Good and Evil, satan or Adam? Also, since Eve gave Adam the same fruit and he ate of it himself, does that mean Adam had intercourse with satan also, if satan was the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Is anyone else confused here?

    It is true what my pastor has been teaching. People can take something out of context in the scriptures and come up with some really weird stuff and call it truth.

    I know you guys mean well, but this is the weirdest and of no use nonsense I have ever heard of.

    Reply
  44. Tammy

    Also one more thing, I would seriously question a man whose main focus was intercourse in the scriptures.

    Reply
  45. Tammy

    Nevermind on answering my final questions. I went on the websites and got my answers. This man is perverted. Anyone crazy enough to blindly follow this guy deserves what they get. I am praying for you all, but somehow I think God will allow you to stay in your deception until you see the need to get out of it.

    Reply

  46. Kandy, aren’t you depending only upon Arnold for you serpent seed doctrine? You deny who the Kenites really are, what trees really are, and the fact that Adam was the father of Cain and Abel – all against Moses and the Prophets. Only by Murray do you receive this doctrines…only by the neo-nazi Murray do you see them.
    http://www.carm.org/chapel/arnold_murray.htm

    Reply

  47. Tammy! That are wonderful questions. I have not thought of it that way, I mean when Adam eating the fruit. Great questions.

    Reply
  48. PeaceBlessin

    Could it be that Adam took Eve’s sin upon himself as he was the head of her as Christ took the world’s sin upon himself as the head of the Church?

    Reply

  49. Wow. what utter nonsense to think someone teaches this distortion of what the Scriptures say concerning Cain, Eve and satan.

    I’m just shocked this person would teach such trash.

    Reply
  50. PeaceBlessin

    2Peter3:7-18 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved for fire until the day of judgement and perdiction of ungodly men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His Promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. But, the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which heavens will be disolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His Promise look for new heavens and a new earth in which rightousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You, therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

    Reply
  51. Tammy

    Peace, I do read the scriptures and I follow the leading of the Holy Spirit as well as the teaching of the office of the Apostles, not the fakes ones such as the NAR, but the Apostles of Jesus Christ. The way I would put it based on what God through His Spirit has revealed to me, God can’t lie and this man is lying. Once again, I would run very fast from someone whose base focus is on the instances he views as intercourse in the Bible. God will not be mocked.

    Besides, I am developing a very good ability to discern and I discern this man is a false teacher and should be avoided at all cost. One warning I intend to heed.

    Thank you Poly, I wish that was not a question, but I found his site and that is exactly what he is saying. He is a very sick individual.

    Reply
  52. PeaceBlessin

    Tammy, intercourse has been a part of God’s plan for our salvation from the beginning; man turned into something dirty not God. God bless you always.

    Reply
  53. PeaceBlessin

    Tammy, I should add…man turned into something dirty…which was Satan’s plan.

    Reply

  54. PeaceBlessin,

    What was your purpose in posting 2Peter3:7-18? I would have used that scripture to show what Murray has done concerning Cain, Eve, and Satan – at the very least.

    Man is sinful, but GOD has a perfect lasting enduring all-encompassing plan that includes that sinfulness. He knew what would happen and allowed it to happen that He might be glorified. Satan is included in God’s plan, and in fact can do nothing without God at least allowing it (Job 1:6-12). God’s plan includes people like Murray who twist scripture to say what it does not say, and Peter warned of men like him.

    Reply
  55. Tammy

    Intercourse? No, God’s plan for my salvation was slain from the foundation of the world. You go ahead and believe whatever perversion you wish, I will stand in the Grace of my Lord Jesus any day.

    You are correct on one thing, intercourse has been made dirty by man just as satan planned. But you know what is filthier? Taking the wonderful sacrifice of my Savior and making it into something so slight as intercourse. What He did for me, the other could never do. I will never lower my Savior and His sacrifice to the level of such an act. You should be extremely careful as you do this. It is not me you will answer to, however, God will judge and you may be extremely disappointed at the outcome.

    You have mentioned my Savior only once in passing in a scripture reference. Did AM die for you and rise again for you or something? I bet not.

    Evidently, you have not met my Mastor, His name is Jesus, Son of God, crucified, died, rose again, defeated death and sits on the right hand of God the Father making intercession for me. Your Mr. Murray could never top that.

    Do you even speak of Jesus outside of a scripture reference? Do you even consider the words you say? Remember every careless word will be remembered and will be judged.

    I have had enough of you and your perversion. I turn you over to God to do with as His Holiness dictates. In turn, He may turn you over to satan who probably is laughing at the sight of you and your deception.

    Don’t offer to pray for me, it would be a curse and God will not allow it. Waste your breath on someone else.

    Poly, where do these people come from? The deception is getting worse.

    Reply
  56. Deb

    AMEN! You know like that song,I KNOW MY REDEEMER LIVES! JESUS DOES AND STILL REINS AND WILL FOREVER…PEOPLE JUST COME AWAY FROM THE WORLD,AND EVERY FALSE THING THAT IS IN IT! WORSHIP AND TRUST ONLY JESUS,HE IS THE ONLY WAY!

    Reply
  57. PeaceBlessin

    Tammy, I don’t even know you and have nothing but God’s love for you. We all have the opportunity for salvation through our faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    Why do you call me names and judge me? I am not your teacher and am only a student in God’s word. I don’t ask you to believe me about anything. I’ve said read your bible and discern what you want from that. If it is different then what I discern not a problem as God will take care of both of us. False teachers have a special judgment coming from the Lord and I will leave all judgment in the Lord’s hands; I am not afraid of God, I love God and he knows my heart and will judge me accordingly.

    Polycarp should be teaching out of love instead of teaching out of hate which then fosters hate among people who come to him for guidance. God is love and he loves all his children and we all are trying to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord, I know I am.
    I have never witnessed such hate among people who are supposed to be bringing people to the Lord. If our salvation was through man we wouldn’t need God but because we know our salvation is through God why spend time hating a man…pray for him and let God do the judging.

    Forgive me if I have said anything to make you hate me. I also pray to the Father for his continued wisdom, knowledge and understanding of his written word for everyone. I pray to the Father freely about whatever and whomever out of love not hate.

    wb, the scripture served its purpose.

    Peace be with you all. Heavening Father I ask your forgivness if I have offended you or any of your children in any way and I thank you for your forgiveness in Jesus Christ name I pray. Amen.

    I will not post to this site any further.

    Reply
  58. Tammy

    I direct this at the group. I do not find where I called anyone a name or judged them personally, only turned them over to God and called the teaching that they follow perversion as that is what it rightfully is. If Kandy feels that I have judged her, then she read what I wrote in a spirit that is not from God. What I wrote was plain and supported the Lordship of My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. What name did I call her? I don’t find it. When did I judge her person? I did not. When did I judge what she was putting forth, and I might add alone as all the others tucked tail and ran, plainly as I am allowed by the scriptures as to not fall for the same deception. There was no hate put forth by anyone on here, not even by Kandy. I never put someone not agreeing with what I believe as hating me, but as disagreeing with me. At a certain point if I do not feel they are getting the jest of what I am writing, I stop for then it crosses the line of casting the pearl of great price before swine. Not calling anyone such, but relaying the truth set forth by the scriptures. As far as the issue of me not wanting her to pray for me, that is my right of protection. I do not allow just anyone to speak prophetically over me if they are not reading from the scriptures, I do not allow just anyone to pray for me as they may not have the goodness of God functioning in their lives, especially when they have proven with words that they follow a false doctrine. You would never ask satan to pray for you, would you? I follow the doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ and His amazing Grace. No other doctrine will ever replace it. Whatever belief anyone has concerning the old testament, I will only try to point out the truth of believing in Jesus over that, but if they refuse it, I leave it alone as they are refusing the truth. Not the truth as I see it, but the truth according to the scriptures, and that my dear friends is my last post to this particular issue.

    Reply

  59. Tammy,

    I did not think you judgmental. I thought you calls wrong teaching exactly what it is. Some people think that is being judgmental. It is merely being obedient to God.

    Reply

  60. Check out http://www.esnips.com/SCRevealed to hear great audio recordings of Pastor Murray being taken to the Third Heaven, motioned to by Elijah the Prophet on a cloud…. and hear that infamous recording, Judah is Germany.

    Go to http://www.mediafire.com/?vz1iettok5n and learn where the Chinese really come from. (preview below)

    The Book of Genesis, Chap 1, as taught by Pastor Arnold Murray

    “Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature.. Listen carefully.. that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    Now there is a strange thing that happens here.. and I don’t teach this.. necessarily. It’s not something I would want to debate, certainly.. but I feel that I would be lacking if I did not call it to your attention in passing.

    That the word life as it is utilized in this verse if nephesh, which is soul. And the word nephesh it is not always used as man’s soul, but as life 472 times it’s used and is translated as soul. And 282 times it can even refer to life in one various form or another. But here we know that ‘let the waters bring forth abundantly’ he create’s a living being. That’s what a creature is.. and He gives it a soul.

    Many of you with your Companion Bibles.. it will even tell you that the word life is soul. Nephesh. And I have to mention this in passing that naturally.. in my studies in history I know that Chinese history goes back a lot further than our history. Chinese history even reports over Mt Ararat a great flood in the dynasties of their time.. and they are a people that grow their wheat from the water. Called rice. And they basically live from the water.

    So I just mention that..in passing.. that you might not consider this a fish real soon. Like I said, I wouldn’t debate this, because there’s not that much to debate it upon, but yet at the same time.. as a student of history there’s got to be a reason why that their history goes back so much further than ours. History means ‘his story’.. Okay? Their story goes back a lot further than our story goes. So be it. That is yours to put on a self, do with it as you please..”

    Reply

  61. Are you kidding me? The Chinese people came from fish/rice? You need leave Arnold Murray NOW.

    Reply
    1. Kevin DeFranco

      Polycarp, you are an absolute Dunce! He didn’t say that Chinese came from fish/rice. I just noticed that most all these postings are from 2009.Currently myself and only a few keep this dung heap going.You know that you are a liar.You know that what you print is trash. So, from here on out, you can die reading and re- reading your own old news. Sayonara.

      Reply
      1. E

        Awesome Kevin! A true man of God! You show you LOVE just like Jesus Christ. Right??? In fact please show me where in the bible Jesus gave up on people. I have come a long way myself and I am constantly meeting people just beginning their walk. Maybe if the love of many did not “grow wax cold” the church, as a whole, would have a chance. NOPE!!! Ever wonder why there are so many different denominations??? BECAUSE people do not tolerate others even if they are misguided. All of us once where. What were you like before the 90’s when you found Arnold Murray??? Perfect I’d imagine!

        Questions: What covers a multitude of sins? Jesus summed up the Law by saying. “????? the Lord thy God with all Thy heart, with all Thy……and the second is like……????? Thy neighbor as Thyself.” Awesome Kevin. You just fulfilled the second part extremely well. What is the greatest gift? What is the greatest spiritual gift?

        As Arnold Murray did say, there are ‘bible thumpers’ all over the place. Yup, hit them with a bat that will convince them that your way is the right way. A true CHILD of YHVH.

        Reply
        1. Kevin DeFranco

          You are a rude, obnoxious, condescending,intolerant know it all. You mock everyone that doesn’t align themselves with you. you resort to name calling without any consideration for anyone else’ feelings and then expect to be treated with kid gloves.Your idea of winning friends and influencing people is a kick in the nuts to everyone else’s core beliefs.You have gotten me so mad at times hat I have lowered myself to your level. Knowledge is helpful but also can be brutally hurtful. You need to learn the difference. I grew up a Roman Catholic,mindlessly reciting the Baltimore Catechism, taught by rote and scared to death because their idea of faith and understanding God was based purely on fear motivation..They were mean, holier than thou,hypocrites. The biggest awakening I had about them was their total arrogance at the Ecumenical Council II, when they declared that if you read the Bible 30 days in a row for one hour each day the pope would grant you a dispensation from purgatory so that you could go immediately to heaven in lieu of any lingering venial sins. That turns the crucifixion, death, and resurrection of Jesus into a minor detail of salvation, because his holiness could trump it by papal decree. That wasn’t enough. I stopped going to church altogether when a priest declared from the pulpit that God was sadistic in His handling of Job, and actually reveled in his pain, and suffering.I stood up, took my family out of mass,never to return.Now they are welcoming the exact perverted lifestyle into the church that brought them down morally, and financially.The pope never read Deut. 23:17,18. Now I have Strong’s, The King James 1611, green’s Interlinear, all kinds of theological Dictionaries to make your head spin and I still have only scratched the surface. My time is best served concentrating on my own salvation instead of sparring with you on this site .arrivadercci.

          Reply

          1. Kevin,

            1.) Stop using my blog in your comment as your website.

            2.) You are responding to Lois here, not me.

            3.) The KJV is a poor translation based on poorer MSS. Strong’s is outdated. Green…well, that’s cute. If you think this matters to me, you are continuing to be an idiot.

          2. Kevin DeFranco

            I could care less than a f..k what you think you piece of garbage. I’m done.


          3. SATAN is the filthiest word I know, but the one I used for you fits you perfectly.You are going to lonelier than the Maytag repair man on this blog. Like I said…I’m done.

          4. E

            Kevin, I hope this response is not too late. I apologize. Sincerely, I apologize. All I was trying to do is remind you that Arnold Murray taught that love & patients is greater than anger. Please keep in the Word. Remember, “everyday in the Word is a good day.” The KJV bible is a good bible as well as the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. They do a decent job teaching the average person how to look up words in the original text. However, you will need a good interlinear, whereas the Green’s is fine. Some people cannot be reasoned with. They just will never understand. Keep studying. If it’s any consolation I prefer Dennis Murray because he is much more thorough. Peace and best of luck.

            As for you, Joel, well …hmmm…let me put it this way. I’ve always wondered why a child that has lived through the horrors of being abused and molested later become a predator themselves. You’d think that their own experiences would bring them to not be the horrible creature their abuser were. So I find it ‘cute’ that you have guilt & shame for “condemning people to hell” and being a part of elders beating kids to get the Holy Spirit into them. Not much has changed in your demeanor and attitude. Well then you go, Joel Landon Watts! (tongue in cheek)

            enough said….peace


  62. Who’s Who?

    In the 1960’s – early 70’s a group of friends & associates mostly from California decided to buy land near Clarksville, Arkansas to build a compound where Kingdom Identity believers could bring their families to live. Among the group were Wesley Swift, Roy Gillaspie & Richard G. Butler (Aryan Nations) of the Christian Defense League, Butler’s mother Madge Britton who later formed the Holy Hills of Zion Church in Decatur, Arkansas, Gerald L.K. Smith & associate Opal Tanner White, Fred Demoret – later pastor of Christian Identity Church – which was also pastored at one time by Thom Robb of the K.K.K., and pastors Arnold B. Murray & Lee Jandebeur who would later collaberate to write the Shepherd’s Bible, a Kingdom Identity version of the bible with commentary. The compound never came to be, but the group met in a trailor behind the home of Alonzo (Lon) Mefford. Much of the Kingdom Identity writings of the 1970’s took place in this trailor, which doubled as a library of records for the movement.

    Wesley Swift was founder and minister of the original White Identity: Church of Christ, Christian of California. Gillaspie started another church branch in California. Robb & Murray both started branches of the church in Arkansas, with Murray later changing the name of his to Shepherd’s Chapel. He has retained a corporate identity of Soldiers of the Cross, Inc., Gravette, Arkansas, and was ordained by that corporate founder, Kenneth Goff of Soldiers of the Cross Kingdom Bible Institute, Engelwood Colorado. Graduate of SOTC, Thom Robb (K.K.K.), currently owns the Soldiers of the Cross Bible Campground in Harrison, Arkansas and pastors the Church of Christ Christian, Independent.

    Reply

  63. Oliver Kenneth Goff’s Soldiers of the Cross, school of Englewood, Colorado was known by two names: The Soldiers of the Cross Bible Institute and Rocky Mountain Kingdom Gospel Bible Institute. Thom Robb, current head of the K.K.K., was among the graduates. There was at least one fire that destroyed much of the school. It was rebuilt at least once.

    Three zip codes recognized as Engelwood, Colorado are actually a number of towns and cities in Arapahoe County including Engelwood proper, Sheridan, Greenwood Village, Cherry Hills Village and parts of unincorporated Douglas County. It is a Home Rule Municipality, as protected under the Constitution of the State of Colorado. As such it is self-governing, which in the past has made it attractive to a certain element among non-profit organizations.

    Reply

  64. Hmm. I wonder how can we tell the folks who are writing the “My Comments” search page that it is not picking up the threaded comments all the time. Anyone know?

    Reply
  65. hesatrueteacher

    OMG!
    How can you people say Arnold pastor Murray is a faults teacher, he’s the best teacher I and my husband have studied the KJV Bible with. Alot of churches I been to do not read the bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Preachers in churches I’ve been to pick a chapter to read and they read about 2 or 3 verses than they switch, I found this really confusing and I have stopped going to church because it’s true they only teach people what they want to and sometimes they don’t even read what’s written in the bible. My opinion about Arnold pastor Murray is that when he reads God’s Words he goes by chapter and verse by verse without skipping and he stops and explains what God is talking about and it’s very easy to understand what he is trying to say because it’s a match up with the stronges accordants KJV. The real faults teachers are the ones in Churches who don’t care about reading the bible to us and just talk about what they want like, Building a new gym for the kids. This has nothing to do with what is written in the bible so why did the preacher bring this up? At first the preacher from one of the churches we went to was reading, “How Satan try to temped Jesus” and then he closed the bible and slipped in, “We need to build a new gym for the kids”. I was like, “huh”? that’s not in the bible. So after that my husband and I got up and left. Ever had Jaohva witness in your home? Ones we had were two elderly women and my husband was just interested in wanting to know where the black people came from, this is not a racist thing, he just wanted to know how did they exist. So Sarah one of the ladies said, “Well humans are like chickens so take a chicken for an example” Now these two ladies didn’t make any sense, because there’s no way chickens are a comparsion to humans and we just cracked up really bad about what they believe.And another thing also when they read their Bibles we never laughed at them but when we read our KJV of our bible they were laughing and being really rude. Never again will we have those people in our house, they just kept coming to our house because they wanted us to attend their church, so we decided to go one time to get rid of them, the preacher there didn’t teach us on god’s word so we left and never went back there. Arnold Pastor Murray is the only person I know that has read the bible in God’s words the way it’s written. My husband and I have been reading and listening with him for 8 yrs. now and we will continue doing our studies with him.
    God’s blessing to everyone!:)

    Reply
  66. Kenneth Goff Jr.

    All of you need to get a life. The fact is they are all radicals. My dad Kenneth Goff died so he is no longer teaching. I am hid only son and I do not promote hate I am a true follower of Jesus Christ and study the Word of God daily. Cain is no factor in our salvation it does not say the only way to the father is threw cain able or any other person other than Jesus. When you chose to read and follow any and I mean any other book other than the Bible the 66 book love letter of God. Than you choose to tamper with the truth. Read John 1:1 it tells you Jesus is God proving the trinity. Read the minor prophets. Read the new testament. Question every thing threw this book. If it dont line up it is not truth. Follow the false prophets and belive the lies and you can answer for it on the judgement day. My Dad will answer for what he taught. Grow up learn the Word of God repent and except Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior. Be filled with the Holy Spirit and walk in truth and love. Jesus wasnt a hater he LOVED. Realize that and get a clue.

    Reply
  67. Kenneth Goff Jr.

    I am not promoting if you read correctly as to what I said he has to answer for what he did and the rest of us need to love like Jesus The Christ Lord of Lords. not get into the wondering of if Cains curse was to be black. It wasnt it was what ever it was but the fact of the matter is none of the Cain facts matter it all comes down to. Do you know Jesus as your savior? Do you believe he was sinnless died for your sins rose on the third day and assended into heaven and is seated on the right hand of God. If you know this and read the Word of God only and studie what it is and love one another as Christ loved us.
    Agape Love pure divine giving all of your self and live a life holy and pleasing to God all the other, fanatical crud shouldnt matter to your walk. The man ordained by my dad and all the other racial idiots need to grow up. So all of you following his or any other false teachers need to get into the Word the bible the truth and learn. learn of what you speak because God is not a God of hate he is a God of love. Kenneth Goff is dead he died in the early seventys he left behind 3 children that are followers of The Christ. We only know love for every one We dont see color we dont see race. I personaly love Israel I support the nation, and my mother was Indian. I have people of every nationality race and yes color in my family. I belive we need to let the propoganda of my father and all the other radicals die. Stop using his works he is gone his legacy is now his kids and we love we dont hate. I dont spread his doctrine I tell the truth and support the Bible. Read it Read it Read it Read it if I didnt make that clear enough for you Read the BIBLE that is the truth the rest is man spouting off at the mouth their own ideas. If you elevate any man uo on a pedastal and idolize him he has taken the place of the truth.
    He has taken the place of God dont allow satan the father of all lies to rob any of you of the love of Jesus. Make God your all in all and let the Holy Spirit fill you and lead you. Life can be so much more when you kick the hate out and let the love in. Let the peace that passes all understanding gaurd your heart. I am a beliver that knows that he who knew no sin became sin for me. I dont want to pound those nails anymore and I dont want my fathers teaching to pound those nails anymore. So once again for those that didnt get it he taught wrong the Bible is the only truth and the only way to true salvation is threw Christ Jesus, and it has no bias on race creed gender or anything else.

    Reply
  68. O.B. Dan

    First, a little aside for Polycarp: K. Thomas is Kerney Thomas Jr, another TV minister, rumored to be every bit as corrupt as Peter Popof is said to be. You order the free personal prayer package and the follow-up is when he hits you for a “donation.” Fortunately he’s not the brightest bulb on the tree and occasionally runs a caller’s comments on this. Unfortunately, he knows his audience and how to play to them, and just play them. And his breaking into tongues mid-sentence is as phony as it gets.

    As to his holiness Pope Arnold I of Arkansas (which in itself is a major clue, so I don’t need another one, Ken Goff)…none of what he claims to be his personal history can be verified by what should be easily-accessible records. There are no records of his service at the Chosin Reservoir, or in the Korean Conflict, or the Marines. And his doctorate – from where? Under what provisions?

    The only thing that stands up is his ministerial license, signed by a couple of those redneck racist preachers tied in with the Klan and the Identity. And that crowd also knows their audience (which does not include Kerney Thomas or the huge black majority of his flock). They preach to a “congregation” that already knows what they believe and what they want to hear. Murray et al are essentially just telling them they’re right in their racist philosophy (remember, the Bible was held as justification for slavery for a long time; it’s not a real stretch to think this still goes on today).

    The only TV preacher who I think is on the ball is Joel Osteen. He doesn’t talk down to people, doesn’t make you feel “less than,” does not insist that his interpretation of the Bible is the only way (in fact, even though he advises everybody to get in a good Bible-based church, he doesn’t hammer you with his biblical interpretations at all), and spends more time teaching how to live a good life in Christ – and he doesn’t pitch crap like the green cloth or prosperity or the red blood of Jesus hankie, or heal the sick and infirm, or break into tongues. Granted, he does advertise his (and his wife’s) books, and upcoming tours, but none of that distracts from his message.

    Murray, Thomas, Popoff, and all those other carney pitchmen should listen to him – they might learn something.

    Reply
  69. GAY BROWN

    Hello….I have been with the chapel since 1993. I do not consider myself part of a cult, nor am I mezmerized by Pastor Murray.
    I have watched alot of TV evangelists holding their hands out and begging for money in one way or another. Most every [sermon] is about planting a seed [money]. You can get blown down, spit on….have some ‘miracle’ water sent to you…or maybe a prayer cloth is more your style. I see the hypocrisy all around and it makes me ill. God is the ultimate judge and he has the final say-so. Say what you will against Pastor Murray…but…what if you are wrong? :)

    Reply
  70. ET

    Saint Patrick’s Day is proof of the Kenites. In the part of the world St Patrick would have chased the snakes out from the land there were never any snakes. The snakes were the child of Cain. The sons of Satan. The sons pretending to be Jews who asked for the death of Jesus.

    Yes there are scripture to back this up. But you must do the work on your own Polycrap. :)

    Happy Hunting!

    Reply

  71. GB, if you do not want to discuss this, then do not post. I will hold your comment in abeyance until you decide whether or not you want to discuss the rather false prophet of Arnie M.

    Reply

  72. >> PS… The snakes in the Bible referred to the children of Cain.
    >> Those same children were run from Ireland by Saint Patrick.
    >> Read the verse John 8:44 and study the book!

    That’s your speculation -wouldn’t you say? That’s how you pick to interpret that scripture. There’s no proof outside claims from British Israelitists and unverified myth that St. Pat was in Ireland -or took daughters of Israel there. Myths and legends aren’t the same as proof. Legend says that Zeus rules the earth from Mt. Olympus. Legend says St. Nick’s going to put presents under my tree next December. Legend says the earth rides on a giant turtle’s back. Your legend has about the same amount of documentation to prove it, and much less even than the myth of Zeus. ;))

    Reply
  73. ET

    yes this is your blog Mr. ControlFreak. I don’t trust you.

    Thank you for posting my final words to you :)

    You’re beating this topic to death because you don’t understand the Word of God. Your projections are only hurting yourself.

    Reply

  74. Et, you realize, of course, that I had left this topic alone along time ago – but it is the Arni M. followers that keep attempt to bring it up. You realize that, don’t you, that add you guys not stopped by to ‘show me’ that I would not have returned to this posting. Frankly, his doctrine sickens me, and any man that so relishes the Christian Identity movement does so as well.

    Reply
  75. ET

    You’re simply not getting the point. All Pastor Murray does is read the Bible line by line verse by verse. Why would reading the Bible make you sick? I have not come back to the topic for you Poly. I am here in support of Shepherd’s Chapel and everyone that wants to know the Truth. Not the lies supported for years like… “The world is only 6,000 years old.” When you find the Truth you will know it. I however am sickened by churches bringing man made traditions in the house of God and telling me that I would never understand the book of Revelations when the very title of the book means to reveal.

    Just remember these words, Poly, “Every knee will bow.” When you see that happen you will know that the deception is over.

    Reply
  76. GAY BROWN

    Poly…As I previously stated…I was just presenting my view on WHY I believe as I do. If you do not want me to post my view, then I will refrain from doing so. I wish you would be a little more respectful of Pastor Murray….and do not address him as Arnie. Good Day

    Reply
  77. Jami Simmons

    You tickle me. The hate and discontent you spew about Arnold Murray doesn’t change our minds. Come on, lemme guess…is this all about that fly-away junk? We can READ ya know! All this stuff stuff proves just how lucky we are to have a real pastor and messenger of God’s word. It’s OK though. I understand God also has a sense of humor. What a hoot!

    Reply
  78. George Smyrna

    Hey “Polycarp” are you going to admit that you plagiarized your entire article, which was written by Casey Sanchez for the SPLC website, or will I have to provide proof?

    Reply
  79. George Smyrna

    Hey Folks, the person who wrote several posts here under the name “SC Revealed” posts at www. factnet. org as “Stage_Director”. Despite what you might think of Murray, she is an obsessed, extremely dishonest individual and you can see her entire at at FactNet.org especially under the thread called Cultblunderers and Shepherd’s Chapel II.

    It was she who fed Casey Sanchez the load of BS that he wrote about, the very article posted above. I’m a Chapel student of twenty years, and if you bother to see the truth, just go to FactNet and read about the dishonesty, rumor mongering, and mis-characterizations of what Murray teaches. I post there as Smyrna.

    As for those who act so shocked at teaching Satan had sex with Eve, do you homework. Ancient Jewish literature claims the same thing, as well as many other ancient religious texts. Murray didn’t make it up, not did Branham.

    Google Jewish Encyclopedia, and look up Cain, Satan, and Kenite and that should start you off.

    Reply

  80. You mean, prove beyond the link to the original site and the inclusion of ‘Southern Poverty Law Center’ in the tag? Sell your goods else where, George

    Reply
  81. George Smyrna

    A link isn’t sufficient, you wrote: “by” “Polycarp” how many people knew that was a link?

    Plus, you don’t bother to post my other info by that sleazy rumor monger “SC_Revealed” I’ve busted her lying so many times, it doesn’t matter whether you wish to “reveal that here.”

    As for the article, we (myself and other students) ripped it apart:

    Reply

  82. FactNet is a “disgusting and vulgar site?,

    Excuse me sir, but you just damaged any credibility you may have tried to impress me with. Because FactNet.org is an anti-cult site, with hundreds of thousands of posts and thousands of contributors. I offered no other links.

    Amazing that you would characterize that site in such a manner.

    I will however, accept you explanation about the link to the SPLC. But it still strikes me as disingenuous that you aren’t immediately forthcoming by explaining in the text that you are merely copying the article.

    Reply

  83. Ah, I love it when my posts are deleted, it tells me three things: One, that you read them. Two, that you are fearful of them, three, you don’t know how to respond to them without incriminating yourself, which overlaps the fear factor.

    When I take the above into macro analysis, which of course would have to include your careless revelation of your connections to those miscreants at CBgalactica and CBRefugeecamp, then it becomes a slam dunk:

    you are a misinformed,(via of your published sources) misguided (via your own overinflated ego) and a coward (based upon your actions) who, no matter how you may disagree with SC teachings, has proven beyond a doubt that you are incapable of making any type of unbiased analysis of your own.

    You may think I am some brainwashed cult member, that would be your biggest mistake among many. It is you Sir, who have followed your own pre-conceived notions, which sent you looking for only those things you readily agree with, that is so painfully obvious be the references you have cited in regard to the SC.

    But, everyone has a right to develop sloppy research habits. Good to see you have taken full advantage of that right.

    Reply
  84. ET

    You never really left this topic, Poly :)

    READ THIS SLOWLY….. The Bible is read chapter by chapter, line by line, word by word, to the members of Shepherd’s Chapel………. If you want to KEEP calling our Creator a liar, his Son and the Holy Spirit a liar then be ignorant, Poly.

    Defensivness comes from Satan. Deception comes from Satan. You are against freedom of speech and love the argument you think you obtain from this topic you set up. There isn’t any proof in this blog to suggest you know anything about the plan of God. “Barren fruits”. You are doing the works of the Devil.

    Come out! Jesus loves you :)

    Reply
  85. ET

    Polycarp, I know you read everything that comes thru this blog. You believe that the churches told their flocks the truth. I am telling you they lied. They teach their people to fly away, the Bible says so. ( Ezekiel ) They Bible also states that all the things cannot happen until Satan comes first. ( Thessalonians ) These things are told to us from our Holy Father in Heaven. You wish to continue against Pastor Murray …. just remember this…. The man that sat ontop of his home didn’t receive want was sent because he didn’t have faith. What will it feel like when Jesus says to you.. “I never knew you!” When he shuts the door.

    You have led a few astray. You are leading his people away. He wants ALL to come to Him!

    Read the Bible! Learn the parable of the Fig Tree! Jesus ordered it.

    Farewell, Polycarp :)

    Reply
  86. George Smyrna

    [B]Deny the obvious, embrace the absurd[/B]

    If they’d be willing to place them on their car bumpers, I’d pay to print up stickers for the SC detractors saying that.

    As we see with LetUsReason.org who the CB Blogger “Polycarp” considers a

    divine oracle of truth, he simply accepts that whoever wrote that slop about the SC teaching that a literal snake mated with Eve in the Garden.

    Even long time detractors like Stage_ Director/SC Revealed know that is not true. SC teaches that Satan was a fallen archangel, and just as later in the Genesis text in Chapter 6 we read of the Nephilim (i.e “Sons of God”)mating with earth women and that giants were bore from that, it’s no leap to see that is the correct rendering of the events in the allegory of the earlier chapters.

    Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, fundamentalists and literalists believed and taught various interpretation, none of which included the fallen angels. One version had the sons of Adam/Seth marrying the daughters of Cain, refusing to acknowlegde that the angles were invloved at all.

    This all changed when the DSS were discovered, and we found ancient texts that went into great detail about the fallen angels.

    But few if any believe a real snake was involved in the temptation and fall of mankind in Genesis, those that do still think the fruit is an apple too.

    You can take the kid out of Sunday school, but you can’t take Sunday school out of the kid. That kind of sums up our resident racist detractor Aryan/Truth_child/bold22, those unfamiliar with this character can be read at CBRefugeecamp.yuku.com as well as cultbustersgalactica.yuku.com and you’ll see what I mean. He’s bold22 at both forums, I supose the 22 rfers to his Intelligence Quotient.

    Reply
  87. In His Name

    Murray nor his family are racist, quite far from it. Polycarp is a liar, & acting like a true spiritual Kenite, for it is HE who is truly in fact a “racist,” as is anyone who falsely accuses anyone of being, despite the facts & countless testimonials by truthful humble individuals whom can attest. Just like the far-leftists do on a daily, make that, almost hourly basis – play the race card to further their warped, anti-God, or anything good, agenda. Yahshua Hamashiach said to fish from the RIGHT side of the “boat,” what do you misguided, deluded, gullible, fall-for-anything-individuals think He was referring to (as well as more than a few other references to the “right” made by Scripture)?! Poly, you sir, are a deceived man, gullible, but it’s alright, because the Bible says to leave your types alone, yet while we still fight against your false doctrine with the Truth. I’ll bet you voted for the current administration, the largest lot of crooks, fools, & cons the world has seen so far next to the Johnson & Carter administrations. & Carter claimed to be a “Baptist minister” of sorts; well, Jesus Himself said many will come as false shepherds, & many will be deceived. Stay where you are Poly, & it will only get hotter. I pray that, even as Paul initially fought against Christ, that if so in the last moments the Lord will help you realize your err, & you wake out of your slumber, unless He deems you unworthy because of your evident present spiritual apostacy. But that is God’s business; but I as a follower am bound to call you & your likes out, as have the rest of these good men & women have here. You, sir, are a fraud, & should be ashamed of yourself for repeating false accusations that God will certainly have you answer for. Get informed b4 it is yet too late for you. I came down hard on you because you incite falsehood & rebellion against the True Word of God, by looking to essays, lies, & accounts from other men who are also ne’er-do-wells, instead of checking unbiasedly yourselves, causing strife, derision, & division. May Father have pity & mercy on you, for only He truly knows why you are doing such foolish things, & it is He who is the True final Judge. I am just simply a lowly “discerner.” In His Name…

    Reply

  88. Another post deleted, George. Why? Because all you want to do is to defend yourself and provide no Scripture to support your doctrine.

    Reply
  89. ET

    So, Poly, I see what you are up to. You want everyone else to do the work while you sit back and call us liars rascists or whatever new name you’ve come up with.

    Alright then.

    Ezekiel 13:18-20 “the souls that ye hunt to make them fly”

    Ezekiel 13:
    18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
    19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
    20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

    Rapture, the Big lie.

    While stating “farewell” when parting could mean a permanent departure; stating a farewell message is an “acknowledgment or expression of goodwill at parting”.

    ¡adiós! :)

    Reply
  90. In His Name

    I am appalled at this behavior of false accusations against Brothers & Sisters in the Word. & just what do birds do, charlatan-PC? (Funny your acronym can also denote “politically correct”…God has a sense of ironic-humor too!)…Why…they “FLY AWAY OH LAWD” don’t they…hmmm. Wrong again, PC. What pray tell, is the passage about then, oh all-wise-&-knowing man of god (since you don’t give any specifics to back your “ideology/imaginations of men” up as you should by God if you’re going to debate Truth properly!)? First of all, you quote the NEW KJV; any responsible, studious Child of the Living God is quoting the original KJV, period. Throw away all these inferior translations of the Holy Book with their subtle incorrectly translated words in strategic places, (for they are like the dividing of Christianity into all the ridiculous subdivisions/denominataions we have today) in ignorance or not, it does not change the facts. Christians are Christians. There’s only ONE Scripture, 1 God, & 1 Word AKA the “Holy Trinity,” & 1 True Christ. Secondly, it has everything to do with “Arnie’s Theology,” which is your “down-the-nose” term for the actual literal WORD OF GOD. You obviously either A) know NOTHING about “Arnie” & are repeating the compounding lies you’ve been hearing long enough to believe in them, which is a secondary or later source, & of which the Word condemns “gossip” as evil, or; B) you are deliberate, making you perilously close to a spiritual kenite. Either way, it’s not very impressive nor good credentials for spreading rumors & lies as a gossip-monger. You are reprobate & debased in every way in any of your defenses, not to mention you “deny” what is told you with vague statements than offer NO studious, knowledgeable solution or rebuttal, a sign of a true hot air balloon. & either way, you are deceived. It is Highly possible God has allowed the “strong delusion” sent for “those who choose to believe lie(s)” you to chew on. Your present God is NOT our God. If you were a true Christian, you would never falsely accuse a brother in the Lord as you & your likes have done. The 1 good thing of your negativity that the Lord will turn for Good is, you actually help True Brethren here, because any responsible, sound-minded person searching for the Truth will be driven to look into each of our points, & those who will & are deserving will be driven into the discovery of Word of Truth. The rest, we don’t need to worry about, those who are mislead will be mislead. Pray for them, there is yet time. So, in essence, you actually help the cause! After that, I kick the dust off my feet from before you. You have been warned, so that now, when the things that befall you that are poised to do so in the near future, due to your own choosing, which you will receive full recompence for unless you repent, you will know that the Hand of God is upon you to chastise you. You are presently part of the negative side to God’s Plan, but look Up, for you may repent & learn the Truth at any time you choose while you’re still here, so there;s yet the chance of hope for you yet. My intention is not to be rude to you, but whay you have done by way of false ccusing a Bother deserves stern rebuttal, but you & yours cannot or will not listen (“spirit of slumber/stupor”). -In (albeit tough) Love…

    Reply
  91. In His Name

    It was not my intention to cast dispersion on the NKJV, as the passgae quoted still contains the essential message – what are do birds known to do? But the orig. KJV quoted earlier contains the accurate thought that the NKJV WAS TRANSLATED DIRECTLY FROM. In other words, oh wise sage of the word, your NKJV version is lifted directly from the OLD KJV. Sorry to slam-dunk your poor reasoning & reading skills again.

    Reply
  92. In His Name

    Ez 13 : 17 – 23 (KJV)-

    17Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

    18And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

    19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

    20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

    21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

    22Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

    23Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

    Reply

  93. Interesting developments lately. Holocaust Museum shooter has ties to Willis Carto………. Ken Goff was neck deep in Liberty Lobby.

    Reply
  94. Scot

    “You mean, prove beyond the link to the original site and the inclusion of ‘Southern Poverty Law Center’ in the tag”

    I thought you where the author that wrote this article too. You do not state it in your article this review was taken from another site and was not written by you. You should do your own research then write an article yourself. Least then you can come to your own conclusions and your debate would seem more credible. We should be lifting each other up in Christ not tearing another down. God Bless.

    Reply
    1. Polycarp

      Scot, it’s pretty clear who wrote this article. The first line in the article references the SPLC.

      Further, Arnold Murray is not in Christ. As I have done my research, I can fully attest to that fact.

      Reply
  95. Scot

    I respect what you believe polycarp it seems that if the article was just about doctrine then I would pass it off. The commenter then goes into detail how pastor Murray Pulled out a 9mm? What does this have to do with bible doctrine but to only enforce a hatred towards Pastor Murray. I would like to point out the audience was laughing towards the end of the video. Does that tell you anything?

    Now which is it.. do you want to bash Pastor Murray personally or bash his doctrine? Because when you do both it becomes more than an argument about doctrine, it becomes a hate filled article aimed towards a man. God Bless.

    Reply
    1. Polycarp

      Sorry, Scot, but you cannot separate man from his doctrine, especially the doctrine which the man Arnie M. preaches. It is a hateful doctrine. I am not bashing, but speaking the truth.

      Tell me, if Hilter was funny, who cares? And yes, of course his audiance would laugh – but was the person to whom the gun was pointed at laughing?

      Reply
  96. Mramx2u

    I have been studying with Pastor Murray/Shepherds Chapel for over 20-some odd years, always looking to the Word for myself and studying. There are so many lies being told about him it makes me sad. To mister polycarp- you have got to be the worst example of a Christian I have seen in a while. What happened to brotherly love among fellow Christians? The name calling and such… really now. Grow up man!

    Reply

  97. Brotherly love is fine, but Murray isn't a brother. He is a false teacher of the worse kind

    Reply
  98. Flt

    Christ and christ crucified is what he teaches.Give him a break and go bother the Muslims

    Reply

  99. Sorry, but that's been proven false. The man is a false teacher and a disgusting one at that.

    Reply
  100. follower of CHRIST not man

    Ummm, I sure do love the WORD OF GOD— and i sure do love Pastor Murray for being BOLD in CHRIST to sure “feed the sheep” with the word of GOD. THANK GOD for HIM. (I'll pray for you too who wrote this trying to throw him under the bus….lol DON'T YOU KNOW GOD is driving his bus??…lol) ……Tell the truth and shame satan. -amen!!!

    Reply
  101. workerinthefield

    A man is known by his fruit. Your fruit is rotten Polycarp. You have proved yourself ignorant and unwilling to get to the truth. There is however good reproof on this conduct of yours. Let me give you one of the many:

    Proverbs 10:18 He that hideth hatred [with] lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, [is] a fool.

    Quite honestly Polycarp, you are bearing false witness against a good honest man. Your hatred consumes you and you have chosen a fool's path instead of righteousness. But do not take my word for it, open your Bible and read for yourself. It IS written, and you cannot change the word of God. A lot of Christians stay ignorant in the word because they don't read it. They take a few verses here and there to fit their idea of how things are and off the go. Don't you think its time you actually know what you are talking about? Have you ever met Pastor Murray or his children? I have. They are wonderful people. His late wife was also, and all of them are quite gracious. You, on the other hand, come across as a thorn in the side of Christianity… your probably someone people avoid or just agree with you until your through prating.

    While I may not like your conduct here with the false accusations, I do like the idea of your life changing for the better. Study the word.

    Reply

  102. So… you readily attack me for ‘attacking’ Murray, but provide no scriptural evidence for his lies and corrupt doctrine….

    Reply
  103. Jimmyter77

    I would like to know if murray is familiar with the writings of Helena Blavatsky and Manly Palmer Hall. I am kind of thinking that he might be a scholar.

    Reply
  104. ICYNDICEY

    Would you people just listen to yourselves on this thread. This is full blown religious psychosis. It is sheer INSANITY!

    Reply
  105. pleadnthe5th

    Arnold Murray is long given praise for taking on the “tough” subjects, but why are they tough? Why do other preachers not take them on? It is because the Bible is not clear on such subjects, we just don’t know…and neither does Arnold Murray, but yet in his puffed up vain mind, he dogmatically declares it to be true. Satan is here to “Fly us away” how does he know this? Is it in the Bible anywhere? You are a cult in you believe in the rapture? The bible is full of raptures! Compare Enoch, Elijah, God delivering Lot before the destruction of Sodom. This man does not know what he is talking about and it really pains me that he preys on the gullable and those that don’t really know their bibles. The mark of the beast is doing the works of Satan? Since he likes to quote greek so much and claims to be a greek scholar, the greek word for “mark” in Revelation is Charagma, and it means a literal stamp upon ones self. Tell him that during one of his answer sessions

    Reply

    1. “tough stands” doesn’t a prophet make. Murray is teaching a false gospel and is in fact leading a cult. You have all the evidence here.

      Reply

  106. Hi polycarp.

    I enjoyed your exchange concerning Pastor Arnold Murray’s stuff. I’ve studied Pastor Murray since the early 90s. I referenced Pastor Murray often to make my points. I linked your exchange concerning Murray to one of my pages “The Original Sin”.

    I have “The God Murders” website:

    http://www.thegodmurders.com/

    I selected controversial Bible C&Vs and commented on them. This website has existed since 1995 and is a work in progress. I’ll share 2 perspectives:

    The God of the Bible is not a good God and the Bible is not a good model for humanity.

    Challenge: Other than the myth of creation, can you list, by Bible C&V, whereby the Old Testament God did something Good for someone without hurting another?

    How long and of what meaningful quality is your list?

    Regards, Gary DeVaney

    Reply

    1. Gary, while I generally don’t mind engaging in such things periodically, I simply don’t have the time to waste. I happen to believe differently than you and because I read the entire OT with an eye to how it was originally read, I believe that most of the ‘bad parts’ are generally misread.

      Reply

      1. Hi Joel. Then, obviously the Bible does not say what it means and does not mean what it says. Regards, G

        Reply

        1. No, Gary – it just doesn’t say what you think it says and means what you think it means.

          Reply

  107. You are twisting a few things just as you are claiming he did! Firstly he didnt say that God flooded the earth because of the mixing of races! He said God flooded the earth because of the mixing of the blood lines with the angels of Gen. Chap. 6 who left their first habitation and saw woman of the earth and they were beautiful! They took wifes and giants were born! He flooded the earth for that reason not blacks, whites or asians! Also you implied murray said cain was the first jew! This shows your ignorance because Jew comes from one of the sons of Isrial who wasnt born till long after the event in the garden! Also he never claimed the Jews were the seed of lucifer, his point was clear, the blood line that was afected by the incident in the garden causing cain and the incident in gen chap 6 causing the nephelium survived the flood because noha was told to take all life on the ark including those mixes of highbreads! Two of every flesh! So through generation after generation the blood line intermingled with all the races, white,black,asian and all religions including the jewish people and christians and muslims, but because the prophecy involves the tribe of jews and the 12 tribes of Isrial than that mixed seed will involve themselves into the Jewish people and cause chaos and cause the good jewish people to look guilty, just as they do in the christian community or muslim or black or white or asian! There has been years of mixing by marriage so know one knows who the decedents of cain are or the decendents of the nephelium are, they look like! Some of them are guided by a dark force to attempt to sway their supposed equals away from the overall plan of God! And since the over all plan of God involves the jewish people and the other tribes of Isrial it stands to reason they would intermingle with those races moreso! This is why it is writtin those who claim to be jews but are of the decedents of Satin (Lucifer) the way you leaned one way and left out full subjects and sentences tells me you may be of that (negitive bloodline)

    Reply

  108. You are taking things out of context the same way most churches do to the bible! Do you know who is a master of the bible? Who knows it inside and out? And who would be a great teacher if he didnt have a different agenda? Satan! He knows it so well he can twist the words around, he can leave key words out while explaining his point, he can put half truths,he can add words and thoughts! Hey you know what I just realized, Satan actually does the same thing with the bible that you did with this article! Wow amazing how easily that was to figure out! You just have to follow the subject matter! Im sure you will get a few more RH negative followers and RH positive followers to believe your twisted words of deception!

    Reply

  109. O dear…. you poor thing! You know having all those initials behind your name has made it very difficult for you to understand the alphabet and subject matters! Line upon line! “Precept upon precept “! It kind of reminds me of the biblical character who was a pretty decent guy that helped people and was well known in the community for helping but was very very wealthy kind of like you are wealthy with knowledge! He came up to Jesus and preceded to brag about how much he does for people! And Jesus said to follow him and to sell all of his possessions and give away all of his money and walk on this path with him! This man was so upset when he heard the truth! I mean he waspo helpful, he did try but to give up that power and all those initials he built up after his name and all the power he has gained because of that! It grieved this man terribly! Oh dear….Poor thing! By the way are you RH positive or RH negitive! Only 9 to 15 % are negative! But dont worry if you are negitive it was commanded to us not to do anything to those with this mark! It is amazing how technology has allowed us at this time in history to see the mark left in the DNA and blood line of a person caused by Genesis Chapter 6! I said to my self years ago before Murray; if this were true there would surly be a marker in the blood and the DNA so i started my research on blood types and DNA and once again the manuscripts proved to be true to their word once again! But people such as your self with a lot of initials behind their name proved arrogant enough to move away from common sense and say o the blood must have had a mutation 35000 years ago, even though blood rarely to never does! So to make it fit in their version of life and initials this one time we will say it mutated! The only man made equivalent (intelligent equivalent ) to reproducing this type of blood change was when humans crossed a horse with mule to get a man made donkey! But what do I know? I dont have all those initials, i only have the bible a library and common sense! It’s easy to count and keep things in order if you have common sense and not initials! Poor thing!

    Reply

    1. I, um, do not have initials behind my name.

      There is just so much wrong in your comments that would take too long to respond.

      Reply

      1. Hi Joel. Can you produce a list whereby the Biblical God did something good without hurting another? Let’s see the quality and quantity of your list.

        I’ll prime the pump. God allowed some old women to have children. But, Who made them barren in the first place?

        God gave Solomon wisdom. What did Solomon do with God’s gift of wisdom? Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. Solomon ended up serving other gods. Personally, I think the wisdom took. Regards, Gary DeVaney “The God Murders”.

        Reply

        1. Oh, you’re one of those… who think that they can use my blog to sell their own book…

          Well, consider yourself banned.

          Reply

  110. My i gave my interpretations along with the chapter/ my key point is the blood line and where it came from and i explained where YOU misrepresented Arnold Murray and where you left out full thoughts! For example if you make a statement ” O that man is a nice caring man” but leave out in your statement he also is a child molester! Wouldn’t you think it would be important to tell the whole truth so a person isnt stuck having only your opinion! Your speaking about individual as if they are a cult but you are the one shorting their quotes or misrepresenting their interpretation basically saying they are wrong and you are right! How do you think aperson who watches someone and knows there interpretation because they have been studying with them feels when you misrepresented what that person stands for? I in a colorful way was showing you that someone else is known for that too! It is they Devil! I was trying to make you see you are telling half truths about murray to sell your own interpretation / that is wrong and evil if you knowingly do that! I study with him and i know half of what you wrote was an outright deception! And how i reacted is natural when someone falsely misrepresents a brother! You have a right to your thoughts and interpretation as does Murray, I gaurentee Murray would finish why you feel the way you do if he were making accusations against you! And although i used some science fiction in trying to slam my point home to you, I also know i am telling the truth that if you use half truths like i know you use against Murray and his followers than nothing you say can be trusted! It goes back to common sense whether or not you have initials after your name! A teacher who clearly sways people against another teacher with half truths will surly teach half truths also!

    Reply

    1. Obviously, Geo, you haven’t made it past grade school grammar.

      Write clearer.

      Reply

  111. Wow i hope all of us grade school students who misspell a word or two because they are blogging and writing with emotion quickly can one day reach your standard of ethical practices! When we achieve your status i guess thats when it is okay to misrepresent somone with half truths! That lack of education with my penmanship and spelling i apologize for. Hopefully one day from your point of view we can be like you and the other great deceiver! Lol o boy joel! When you have no true arguments check the spelling! Hahahhahaha lmao

    Reply

    1. grammar doesn’t equal ethical practices….

      You have more than just spelling problems.

      Reply

  112. And by the way the response i wrote before this and the last one some how skipped what i wrote in certain areas! I have know idea why this took place maybe my type writer became possessed!

    Reply

  113. Whats real sad is instead of answering my questions you attacked my pragmatics and eschewobfuscation. Which is an expression to explain how one confuses the issue instead of answering the question and rebutting your clearly false accusations! I didn’t think i would have to speak this clearly to someone who should understand people on all levels with your supposed background! Lmao!

    Reply

    1. Let me help – For the most part, I have no desire to sift through a huge block of words to find a sane question.

      So, if you want, you can pose one question at a time….

      Reply

  114. My God man! As Dr. Mccoy would say to Captain Kirk! What do you think I had to do with what you wrote!

    Reply
  115. randy

    if anyone dont like shepherds chapel all i can tell them is dont watch it , he teaches bible and that makes satan mad so if anyone is mad , guess you got the wrong spirit

    Reply

    1. so, without any basis for your reality, you make proclamations and expect what?

      Reply
  116. vivian

    this is so sad that you people are so educated probaly from a semiar that teach you how to think you no more now anything about the bible i study with pastor arnold murray and the the father and his son that they teach the truth and not what you want to hear and i can tell you are a false prohet spreading the lies like satan’s children do but the time will come when you will meet the father in heaven and then explain to him about your lies so sad for one person to spread lies because he can’t handle the truth of GODS word

    Reply

    1. Vivian,

      Nothing you’ve said is either completely understandable nor true.

      Reply
      1. VIVIAN

        BEFORE YOU SPEAK AND YOU SPREAD YOUR LIES TO EVERYONE STUDY YOUR BIBLE AND MAYBE YOU CAN LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT GODS LETTER TO US AND THEN MAYBE YOU CAN STUDY WITH THE REAL PEOPLE WHO WANTS TO LEARN GODS LETTER TO US THANK FOR PASTOR MURRAY AND HIS SON DENNIS LEASE THEY LOVE GOD ENOUGH TO SPREAD THE WORD INSTEAD OF CLAIMING THEY KNOW GODS WORDS AND NOT TRY TO SPREAD SATAN’S LIES IN WHICH YOU ARE DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB OF SPREADING THE LIES I PRAY YOU LEARN THE TRUTH NOW IF NOT MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE YOUR EYES WILL BE OPEN SOON MAYBE YOU OUGHT TO TRY LISTENING TO PASTOR MURRAY YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING AND THEN MAYBE YOU CAN SPREAD THE TRUTH ONEDAY

        Reply

        1. That is a rather long sentence and given that so many words were used, you were unable to make a coherent thought.

          Reply
          1. VIVIAN

            YOU ARE SUCH A POOR LITTLE FOOL I KNOW THAT FOR SURE BECAUSE LOOK WERE YOU STUDY AT AND A FOOL WHO CAN’T ANSWER OUR OWN QUESTIONS BUT SO LITTLE WORDS


          2. Good thing you said that in all caps or I might night have heard the full thrust of your argument. Whew…

      2. Lerojist

        I feel sorry for some of the past few generations, as they have been indoctrinated by the ungodly public school system, entertainment, media, and more.

        As it has been said, liberalism is a MENTAL disorder.

        Reply
        1. Kevin DeFranco

          Take the blinders pal! we’re watching the Word of God Unfold right before our very eyes. Ever heard of the four hidden dynasties?Educational, political, economical, and last but not least religious you know where guys like you peddle false doctrine!

          Reply
          1. Lerojist

            I am perfectly aware of the Four Hidden Dynasties of the end times.

            Politics
            Education
            Religion
            Economics

  117. emily abeyta

    I listen to this program and sometimes I do not agree with what is opinionated, but most of all I hear the Word of God spoken when they read from Scripture. Not too many others do this. Ask for discernment and God will give it to you. Then instead of bashing search out the Scriptures for yourself and search out what God is speaking too you. Says in Scripture do not believe Man but the Word of God.

    Reply

    1. Emily,

      Arnold Murray doesn’t know Scripture. Just because you read Scripture aloud does not mean you know what you are talking about.

      Reply
  118. Tabatha

    Was an interesting read I got several laugh and giggles. We all know that Murray is persecuted because he’s not a sheep herder like mainstream religion. He does not sugar coat or beat around the bush so to say. As a young child I discovered the lies of many churches by reading the Bible for myself. I mean the first chapter of Genesis (if you read it and go to church) you will realize they leave a lot out. Immediately, they start twisting things to fit their version of the word of God. I mean are people so adapt to believe anyone they will not read and learn for themselves? Any smart person will know that you do not listen to every word that comes out of someone’s mouth. Everything is open to your own interpretation. I don’t care who you are that book was written to each and everyone of us. Not one person is better at telling you what that book says than you reading and doing the research yourself. It also helps to have an open mind and look around to all religions and maybe it will click the similarities from the Hopi Indians to Christianity. Bet very few know the connection there. Pastor Murray in my opinion is a highly educated man who most of (though I don’t agree with everything) the time is right on the money. I would love to sit down and have a discussion with him any day. To try to put him down or call him out makes you look a fool and as judgmental as it gets. I mean isn’t your job as a Christian type not to judge or are you a hypocrite like most. Just saying when you claim to live by a certain standard then live by it. Have a nice day.

    Reply

    1. um, Murray isn’t persecuted. He’s called out for this utter stupidity and trash he peddles

      Reply
  119. Tabatha

    Apparently most people think we are all a bunch of inbreeds LOL. Isn’t that as bad as saying we came from monkeys?

    Reply
  120. deko

    There is some debate over the Serpent Seed doctrine taught by Arnold/Dennis Murray. Why not evaluate and discuss? Why all the name calling? The accusations in the article posted here are unfounded and complete hype. I’ve looked very closely at the SC’s teaching for over 5 years. Yes, the Serpent Seed is unconventional. Big deal. You should learn to be respectful of other views and learn from Dennis, who is an accomplished OT Scholar, even if you don’t like Arnold. SC has been a blessing to me. Calling them ‘racist’ is a cop out. That term is a worn out canard. Grow up.

    Reply

    1. Actually, I have evaluated and it is nothing more than Aryanism reborn.

      Reply
  121. Marc J. Garzillo

    Tree of Life= Jesus who became the Christ- It’s Fruit=LOVE, God is love
    We are to bring forth much fruit- some 30-some 60- some 100 fold.( Mark 4:8)
    Tree of good and Evil. Isaiah 14:12, tells us what happened to Lucifer. Dr. Murray teaches that Lucifer earned his position as protector of the Mercy Seat. Because of pride he was cast down to the earth. In the garden, he then became Satan. He underwent a name change. Lucifer knew about good but because of the sin of pride, He became our adversary. Question= was he happy or bitter? Heb. 12:15 tells of us the ROOT of bitterness springing up in you. Lucifer / Satan were in Eden (Ez. 28:13)

    Reply

    1. Um, Christ is also called Lucifer. Lucifer is a Latin word and not “the devil’s” name.

      Reply
  122. Markie Your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist

    Welcome to The Shepard’s Chapel bubble study hour with Pastor Ar-nut Murray. Wisdom is understanding Dog’s word. Pastor Murray’s unique teaching approach brings Dog’s word alive with meaning, as he takes you on a chapter by chapter, verse by verse study, of Dog’s letter to you, the Bubble.

    And now, here’s Pastor Ar-nut Murray!

    Gooooooooooooooooooood day to you all! Dog bless you! Say welcome to the Shepard’s Chapel, this family bubble study hour. Ready to get back into our father’s word, er, em, mmm, I mean our Ol’ Yeller’s word!

    Reply
  123. Brian Thompson

    David Murray died in 2013 of a heart attack. None of the three are false teachers as posted in 2008. I guess some people will hold out to the end when it is to late before they will hear the TRUE WORD OF GOD that Pastor Arnold and Dennis teach.

    Reply
  124. Sammy

    How about The First Epistle of John Chapter 3 verse 12 “Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, … Who was the wicked one, was it Eve or maybe it was Adam or could it be Satan?

    Reply
  125. jimmy davis

    you people cant handle that he teaches the bible verse by verse instead of standing up in front of the pew teaching a couple verses then talking about the sunday ball game. I’m a hard core workin texan, carry a .44 with CHL. I took wife to Gravite so she could get babtised. I dont study bible and get into it like she does but when i shook Mr Murrays hand at the end of sunday service my eyes watered. I believe in the lord but dont study. A shit kickin Texan that was awed by the feeling of the lords power in his hands. I guess if you dont like my post thats you’re problem.

    Reply

    1. Well, far be it from me to discuss sound exegetical principles with some who loves his gun and gets turned on touching an old guy’s hand.

      Reply
    2. Brian Thompson

      I agree with jimmy. How many people get much out of 2 verses and the preacher talking 4 20 minutes about nothing. By the way preachers r taught is seminary not to talk over 20 minutes because the average persons attention span is that long. Well, Christians sould have a longer attention span than the average JOE. I do, I watch Arnold Murray or Dennis 8 hrs a day and never lose attention . Folks better wake up and start learning BIBLE preferably from Pastors Muray.
      Brian Thompson

      Reply
  126. Jay

    Just curious and would like to see if some confusion could be cleared here. This goes out to all the Shepherd’s Chapel supporters.

    Who exactly is your teacher?
    What scripture(s) support the serpent seed and 3 earth ages?
    If not totally from scripture(s), then what basis is the prior two pulled from?
    Do you believe you should still follow Moses’ law, i.e. not eat pork, be circumcised, and etc?
    What exactly is a Kenite and how exactly do you know if someone is one, or not?

    I don’t need anything lengthy. Just something short and to the point in what your understanding is and where you got it from.

    Reply
    1. Marc J. Garzillo

      We will give very brief answers:
      Jesus Christ should be everyone’s teacher. (Men can help only)
      Read Jer.4:approx v 18 on. This is not Noah’s flood. It is referring to the world that was.(1st earth age) 2nd Pet. 3:6, We are living in the 2nd (evil) earth age,2nd Peter 3:7. We are looking forward to the age to come.
      Promised seed became the word (Jesus) John1:1… seed by biblical definition are words. Satan uses words (seed) also. This is how he impregnates one’s mind.2nd Cor.11:3.He twists the truth. Clean food which God has ordained (1Tim. 4:5) Circumcision is now of the heart, (Ro. 2:29) etc..
      A Kenite becomes a son of Cain when he refuses to take Godly advice or teaching from God.(Gen. 4:6-7).God’s precious promised Seed is Jesus the word of God. A Kenite is not always reckoned by genealogy.(Gal. 3:28)

      Reply
  127. DC

    I’ll never come back to this toxic post; but hopefully I can help at least one person by writing. It’s sad how literal you people are taking Murry. I’m expressing the same frustration you can hear in his voice during Q&A at the end of his show.. People, we aren’t talking about Spongebob or a game of dodgeball with team A and team B. Try to go beyond the 3rd dimensional flesh, linear time, and black or white ideology. Give yourself some freaking credit as a human being! Our consciousness and mental capacity is nothing that can be simplified to black/white Jew/gentile… If you’re stuck on those concepts you need to seriously pray for some divine knowledge to come your way. If God read your opinions I would assume he’s either terribly frightened at how elementary adults think; or he would just chuckle and say “that’s free will for ya.” Please do yourself a favor and pray to God and seek Truth!!!!! Also buy a water filter because clearly the flouride is effecting most of your IQs. Take Care.

    Reply
  128. DC

    Joel,I used the term “toxic post” before reading your bio and after only reading a few responses, admitingly. I regret that and apologize if I came off nutty or negative. My insomnia gets the best of me sometimes lol. Not a “follower” of Murry, I saw him on tv and decided to google him out of curiosity, which led me to this blog. Anyway, your books seem really interesting. I’ll be sure to check them out. (This was not appropriate for the twittersphere IMO lol) Have a good day.

    Reply

  129. I have made this precious brother a part of my morning life. Where he sits reading from his King James, requesting that everyone buy a Strong’s Concordance to know the exact meaning of the Greek and Hebrew words, and also reading the Strong’s Concordance actual meaning of any word which might possibly be questioned, and then telling everyone at the end of each daily reading that THEY need to be in the Bible themselves. Every day, not listening to any other human on earth, just themselves getting the answers from Father God through Christ the Annointed of the Father.

    Then I see minions and deceivers and tares here ripping this man apart? For saying that there are demonic creatures masquerading both as jews and Christians, and that’s some kind of ‘heresy” teaching? When and if you all get to Heaven, as I hope I will, you will see Arnold Murray in the inner circles of Christ’s closest friends. For those ill informed or simply evil ones here ripping this man apart, probably you will not see it, period.
    May the promise of Deuteronomy 28, first or second half as deserved, fall now upon all commenting on this most precious brother and friend of God. May the blessings promised of first or second half now fall upon
    all posting here. As deserved. Selah, and Amen. I would caution all against bad mouthing this particular brother. Be not deceived, Little whatevers, God is not mocked. Nor are his close friends. It’s just not wise to do.

    Reply
  130. Carl Sagan is god

    Well, I see the old fraud (Arnold Murray) is now dead. When I worked nights I’d tune in this clown just to have a belly full of laughs. I can understand that some good old boys with little to no education would become devotees of Arnold Murray, but for a person of reasonable intelligence to believe in Arnold Murray is a complete mystery! Arnold Murray liked to use Dr. in his title. He was challenged by many skeptics and even some theologians to present his academic achievements. Murray never once lived up to the challenge but only to call skeptics and other challengers heretics, heathens and idiots. Evidentially Murray didn’t have a doctorate; he never attended any college for that matter. Murray made himself out to be some sort of war hero as a sergeant in the marines during the Korean War. A sergeant he was but certainly no war hero. He “educates” himself with the bible and then becomes a self proclaimed biblical teacher. Murray’s dim perception of the bible is a self tailor format. It’s the magical, mystical world of which the man lived. A virtual recluse all of his life the man married and raised two very odd looking sons. The poor boys were raised to believe the utter nonsense dictated by a tyrannical bible thumping father. Murray decides to go global preaching his nonsense and starts up his own television network. Just like any tele evangelist they start out low, build up a following of limited thinking devotees and start asking for their money. Murray made his fortune off of his ignorant followers’ tithings. The man had a fleet of private jets, acres of property, expensive automobiles, a luxury boat, etc. In other words Arnold Murray was a monetary villain. He was a fraud! I can only hope that his only surviving son, Dennis, decides to shut down The Shepard’s Chapel for good. This world doesn’t need anymore brainwashed cretins following prey to these tele preachers. If Arnold Murray really truly believed in a god and an afterlife well, then, I’m sure he was in for a big surprise when he died and saw the “bright lights and heard the angels singing to him while he wooshed down a tunnel,” only to have everything go black. An oxygen deprived dying brain and a wild rush of ketamine made the old man have his last hurrah before everything went black permanently. There is scientific proof that the afterlife DOES NOT exist! NO GOD! NO DEVIL, NO ANGELS, NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Eminent Professor Sir Dr. Stephen Hawking presented new evidence proving these facts! And according to John Lennon’s tune Imagine, yes people imagine……

    Reply
    1. brian Thompson

      Why would someone who doesn’t believe in the afterlife, angels,heaven or the Bible even care what Arnold Murray has to say or teach? Oh, I better check my spelling and grammar. We have to focus on that instead of the real issue because we can’t come up with any other form of attack!

      Reply
        1. Lerojist

          Pastor Murray did not inflict harm on anyone!

          Reply
  131. Robert

    Joel your an Idiot anyone who would listen to you just you yourself

    Reply
  132. reno

    Get a life ,and stop worrying about what others teach ,and worry about what ,you teach ,I have been with the SC for 20 years and never heard a racist thing come from there , and in the flood he destroyed those who mixed with Nephilim . you need to get into the word and stop your nonsense.

    Reply
  133. Tim

    Watts, why do you think Adam and Eve covered their private parts with fig leaves? BECAUSE THEY ATE FRUIT WITH THEIR GENITALS? Watts, I BELIEVE that you have never come to realize that LEARNING IS THE PROGRESSIVE DISCOVERY OF YOUR OWN IGNORANCE. I hope this help you. May God touch and heal your crippled intellect.

    Reply
  134. Tim

    Hey Rainbow Fish, or PolyCarp, just as I asked Watts, I now ask you: Why do you think Adam and Eve covered their private parts with fig leaves? BECAUSE THEY ATE FRUIT WITH THEIR GENITALS? You need to slow down and realize that LEARNING IS THE PROGRESSIVE DISCOVERY OF YOUR OWN IGNORANCE. You have made so many comments which are baseless in fact, or in direct conflict with known scientific facts they are too numerous to respond to. Just one example: You stated that “twins had to be from the same Father” WRONG. JUST GO READ THE FACTS IN ANY MEDICALLY BASED WEBSITE CONCERNING CHILD BIRTH. JUST ONE OF THE COUNTLESS ERRORS YOU HAVE MADE WHICH JUST LIKE THIS EXAMPLE, ALL STEM FROM PERSONAL IGNORANCE. YOU ARE NOT WELL READ ON ANYTHING YOU ARE COMMENTING ON AND YOUR WOULD BE SO EMBARRASSED IF ONE DAY YOU STARTED TO LEARN THE FACTS. I hope this help you. May God touch and heal your crippled intellect. Just keep in mind that LEARNING IS THE PROGRESSIVE DISCOVERY OF YOU OWN IGNORANCE. FYI- EVEN THE OLDEST STORIES FROM THE MYTHOLOGICAL gODS AS WELL AS OTHER RELIGIONS CONTAIN THE same STORY OF THE “gOD OF CREATION” GOING AGAINST THE WILL of the “GOD OF THE WORD” BY TEACHING HIS CREATION how TO HAVE SEX WITH WHOMEVER THEY CHOOSE. AGAIN THIS WAS APPOSED TO THE WILL OF “THE GOD OF THE WORD” WHO WANTED TO CONTROL ALL THE BREEDING AS WE WERE SUPPOSEDLY CREATED TO BE WORKERS FOR THE gODS AND THUS THEY WANTED TO SELECTIVELY CONTROL THE REPRODUCTION TO REPRODUCE ONLY THE SPECIMENS BEST SUITED TO DO THE WORK. Just like most religions have the story of the flood, SO ARNOLD MURRAY IS NOT THE FIRST TO TEACH THIS. EVEN THE MOST WELL READ ORTHODOX JEWISH RABBIS BELIEVE THAT EVE WAS BEGUILED OR SEDUCED BY SATAN AND THEN EVE (ALONG WITH SATAN) WENT TO ADAM AND SHOWED HIM HOW, WHITCH RESULTED IN NON IDENTICAL TWINS. THEY TEACH THAT SATAN MADE SURE HE CONCEIVED WITH EVE FIRST SO HIS SON CAIN WOULD INHERIT THE GARDEN/FIRST BORN SON BIRTHRIGHTS. WAKE UP MAN. Selah.

    Reply
  135. Tim

    OK polycarp and Joel L. Watts, step back and take a simplistic look at the Adam and Eve story. The setting being a beautiful Garden with a beautifully perfect male and female specimen WHO WERE NUDE, and who, in the aftermath of having partook in the “forbidden fruit” and obtained the “knowledge of the good and evil,” DO YOU GUYS REALLY BELIEVE THAT NO SEX WAS INVOLVED? When God saw they had been disobedient, WHAT was Adam and Eve doing at that moment? THEY WERE COVERING THEIR GENTILES WITH FIG LEAVES!! THEN LOW AND BEHOLD two sons were conceived then born. You guys are pitifully naive and will never learn even the most very obvious, UNLESS YOU REALIZE THAT IT IS OK TO DISCOVER YOU ARE SIMPLY IGNORANT. That is what learning is all about. .

    Reply
  136. E

    Hey Joel why are comments being edited or deleted? Second
    request…..
    What church do you teach at????????????

    Reply

    1. I remove Kevin’s continued misuse of my blog in his comment. He, for some reason things when the comment field says “website” it means this website. Clearly, he is a moronic gobshite.

      Reply
      1. E

        Ok, well that says a lot. It never ceases to amaze me who I come across on my journey. Your headed to Catholicism and I left it a long time ago. You had/have guilt from past experiences within a protestant church whereas I have had similar circumstances within the Catholic church. We are both headed toward what we feel are truths. (seeking God, for the most part)

        I don’t imagine you & I could agree, even to disagree. Sometimes we are ignorant but I am not saying this to insult ourselves. For example, I don’t know much about the coal industry. Obviously, if we sat down, you would be at a level of knowledge and proficiency that I am not. Basically our conversation would be one sided with your understanding coming from a position of experience which I do not possess. I am therefore ignorant to the subject but it is not an insult to me; just that I am uneducated in that field.

        In the same manner, you will not understand when I tell you that a man like Arnold Murray is a child in comparison to the teachings of Catholicism. I won’t bore you with my years of experience. I have been told that you cannot teach wisdom. So I won’t even try. Just know this, the 20th chapter of Exodus & the 5th chapter of Deuteronomy are the same in the KJV Bible as they are in the Latin Holy Bible. (The new Catholic Holy Bible/English version has since been revised so that these 2 chapters are not identical to the first written publications of the Latin version or the Masoretic Text.)

        What do I mean? Here is an example that you may start with. Arnold Murray may be misguided in some of his understanding of scriptures but he never claims to be God, or the only true source of God on earth. Are you aware that the Pope (previous) has claimed to be God on Earth? Yes, it is true. To reduce the resulting controversy, he is now considered the ‘Vicar’ for Jesus Christ here on earth. However, studying Latin (which is where the 1st Holy Bible came from), Vicar comes from the Latin word vicarious which means (translated) “instead of.”

        Here, please read this:
        Pope Pius XII said, “…recognize the Holy, Catholic, Roman Church to be the only true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which neither sanctity nor salvation can be found. Call them to the unity of the one fold, granting them the grace to believe every truth of our holy faith and to submit themselves to the Supreme Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth.”

        Here is the source, if you don’t believe me:
        Pope Pius XII : The Raccolta, Benzinger Brothers, Boston, 1957 A.D., No. 626
        (you have been through a seminary school so I have no doubt you possess the skills to research my statements for validity.)

        For what it is worth, no one person knows everything. Each has a little bit to offer. I have studied with a LOT of pastors, preachers, priests and researchers. Each had their ‘quirks’ but I gathered what knowledge they had to better my relationship with Christ. Don’t be so quick to judge for even you came out of a church where you once believed otherwise. (same a myself)

        I hope you find what you are looking for. If you ever want to just talk, my door is always open.

        Reply
        1. Kevin DeFranco

          You both consider yourselves”Higher Critics” and both of you are shaky at best. The Catholic Church is steeped in the traditions of men. praying to statues, burning incense, having a man absolve your sins, limbo, purgatory, utter nonsense Try Eccl.12:6,7 .On the other hand,the United Methodists have openly brought gays into the church and let them be clergy. One UMC in Claremont Ca. brags that openly accepting practicing homosexuals into the church, is one of their core beliefs and puts it at the top of their list.Try Deut:23:17,18 on for size!

          Reply
          1. E

            Hey Kevin. Seems like you have something wrong. I never claimed to still be a Catholic. I was raised a Catholic but would consider myself a “born from above” Christian. I am not a ‘higher critic’ as you so claim. I find most of Arnold Murrays interpretations correct but have studied with many teachers. I am still, and will always be a student. With regard to trees being individuals within the garden of Eden just use your Strong’s Concordance and look up the word “Eden.” You’ll see there is an interesting chapter in Ezekiel about the ‘trees’ in the garden.

            BTW you also should check out your copy of a interlinear if you want to explain hee-hah-Adam (phonetically) as oppose to man kind. Even Arnold Murray does not explain it very well. Remember that the greatest of all the gift is not faith, wisdom or prophecy but rather love (charitable love). I can give you the scriptures if you need it but I assume you already have them. Peace.

          1. E

            …cute??? …so do you believe it?


          2. Of course. There is no salvation outside of the Church – St. Cyprian. And I could go on, if you need.

  137. diann

    There was nothing secret about Pastor Murray. He never, ever, talked against any race, or any person or organization ever. He said that God loved all colors and races and that’s why God created them. Eveverything this guy writing this obscene article, is just not telling the truth. Does he know what a kenite is? No. Because a kenite is not a Jew at all. He needs to study the Bible before bashing someone who really knew the Bible. ummmm, maybe he is a kenite. I don’t know. That’s what a kenite would do and say about a Man of God.

    Reply
    1. Kevin DeFranco

      Diann, you are correct. Pastor Murray laid out his beliefs and taught the Word on T.V. for every one to see. Documentation is a wonderful thing. This filthy lying wanna be bible scholar has never offered any evidence what so ever as to day, time, or broadcast where pastor Murray ever said anything racist. Its all in his puny little Kenite brain He can spread as many lies as he wants here, but he’ll pay later. He won’t be so arrogant and brash then. The irony is: if it weren’t for us responding to his trash, he would be NOTHING but a pathetic little hater talking to himself in a room some where all alone.

      Reply
        1. Kevin DeFranco

          Everything you get is trash from the internet, everything pastor Murray got was from the Bible. You dirty figlio putana

          Reply

  138. If you have a problem with gods word then you need to talk with him about it. The isrealites are today’s Caucasian people. Have you people never heard about the 12 tribes of isreal? 10 were captured by Assyria and settlers into the Caucasus mountains hence the name Caucasian. God even wanted the isrealites when they entered jebus.. Modern day Jerusalem , to kill every man , woman , and child or they would be just like them idol worshippers. Also jesus is not a jew. He is a pure blooded isrealites.jesus did not come from Cain’s ancestry , but through Seth

    Reply

  139. AB, that could be a good deal of your problem – reading comprehension – I said that I have found Murray wanting, not the bible. I am not ‘slamming’ Murray but telling the simple truth.

    The tree of which Eve ate was not the tree of life, as that was expressly mentioned
    Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”– (Genesis 3:22 NKJV)

    Adam and Eve did not eat of Christ – as there was not an Incarnation yet – but were disobedient to God. To guard against the Tree of Life, God sent them away from Eden. Your interpretation is false, as is your understanding. The problem with declaring that the bible is filled with figurative language is that the man of the hour can dictate what it means. Read Origen for some of the things that he wrote because he understood the language of the bible to always mean something else.

    The ‘fruits’ by which we know someone is not the fruit of the tree of life, but what is produced by the life that is led. You really should study for yourself, AB, and be ready for what you find out about your salvation.

    Reply

  140. We disagree in that Murrary teaches that Eve had intercourse with Satan, which is an unbiblical doctrine. You attempted to say that fruit was a figurative term in the Scriptures. I understand that. I deflected because if you begin to take things figuratively, the there is no end to you false doctrine, of which Murray is a prime example.

    Humanity was punished by a separation from God after the Fall. No is saying that the snake was magical or that the tree was, but I will say that Even did not have intercourse with Satan and the Hebrew Old Testament covered it up with the image of the tree of good and evil.

    AB, Murray has lied to concerning the serpent seed doctrine.

    Reply

  141. AB, you have been so blinded by Murrary that nothing will get through to you – well, many one Day it will.

    The Seed is Christ. That is plain by the Messianic prophesy concerning the heel and the head. We may take the seed of the serpent not as Jews or whatever Murrary has told you that it is and serpents or those that follow the adversary. You are indeed very wrong when you say that Christ was speaking to the Church and calling their father the devil. Indeed, it was the Jewish leaders, and He was being figurative, not so literal – which is odd since you allegorize nearly everything else. Their doctrine against Christ was adversial and in contrast to whom the Jews should have followed – Abraham. Do you really believe that Eve had sexual license with Satan?

    Please, all offense taken with this – but that is stupid and heretical.

    In the parable of the seeds – the seed is doctrine, not seminal fluid. Parables were not supposed to be literal, but figures of what Christ is trying to tell those with hears to ear. The problem with only reading one passage in one Gospel and not seeing where it lines up with the others is that you can come away with a pretty rotten doctrine, such as the serpent seed fiasco of Murry, Branham, and that crackpot from the Pacific Rim.

    In the parable of the Sower, “the seed is the word of God” (Luke 8:11). But here that word has been received into the heart, and has converted him that received it into a new creature, a “child of the kingdom,” according to that saying of James (James 1:18), “Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of first-fruits of His creatures.” It is worthy of notice that this vast field of the world is here said to be Christ’s own – “His field,” says the parable. (See Psalms 2:8).

    This is why Paul told Timothy to rightly divide the word of God. The proof is in the bible, not Murray’s mind.

    I could care less if Murray is a Trinitarian. Really. Read my blog. He is a racist, condemning non-whites to these Kenites, or is it the Jews? Who cares about self-defense. That is not a doctrine either. And BAB, read the blog under the category of False Prophets and you we will not the many times that I point out the likes of Joel Osteen and Creflo ‘Can you Spare A’ Dollar.

    I thought not.

    Yes, that is indeed your problem – lack of thinking.

    Reply

  142. BAB, no insults to you – just that doctrine that you teach. There are no such thing as Kenites, as they have been assimilated – and they were not the descendants of Cain.
    From CARM:

    The Kenites, according to Mr. Murray, must be exposed. “We must continue to teach who the Kenites are,” says Mr. Murray, (Newsletter #190, August 1994). He states that the Kenites survived the flood (he denies the global flood) and are found in the lineage of Israel, not Judah, (Newsletter #179, Sept. 1993). Eventually, the Kenites permeated the nation of Israel and are the ones who shouted “Crucify Him,” in reference to Jesus, (Newsletter #179, Sept. 1993).

    In an attempt at biblical support, on his website at Answers to Critics, Mr. Murray states:

    In Gen. 3:15 God is speaking to the serpent, “and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise his heel.”

    Mr. Murray infers that when God says “thy seed” to Satan, He is referring to the Kenites, the descendents of Cain which were literally produced through the literal “seed” of Satan.

    Yes, please move on. I tolerate racism and sexism about as much as I do false doctrine – and Murray promotes all three.

    Reply

  143. Dudley, thanks for letting me know that. I which I knew the other monikers.

    Reply

  144. Coffee,

    Why did you post your question here? Next time, please try my discussion page. I do not know of K. Thomas but I doubt that we have the same opinion of speaking in tongues.

    Reply

  145. Well, Murray has a PR campaign of his own…that’s nice, but actions speak louder than words.

    Reply

  146. E.T. – indeed your ideas are,

    Yes, I have heard and read, and spoken with members of the cult – long before I knew what heresy was. Arnold Murray has shown himself false too often to count.

    http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea4.htm

    Why would I hold a political leader accountable to the word of God when they do not suppose to heed it? Or was that a jibe at the ‘Kenite’?

    Reply

  147. First, parables are not secret hidden agendas – they are small stories which tell a central moral truth. Further, we have to rightly divide the word and allow scripture to interpret scripture. The ‘seeds ‘ are not code words for sexual intercourse with satan and the results.

    Reply

  148. E.T., show me were ‘seeds’ are children produced by intercourse between Eve and Satan? That’s stupid. Further, there is no secret biblical code system. Finally, if these ‘things’ were told in ‘secret’, then how does Arnie know them?

    Reply

  149. You are an ignorant racist. First, hyperbole is a common speech pattern in ancient Palestine as well as today. To say that someone is a son of the devil is to imply that they are bound in sin. Eve did not have intercourse with satan, she disobeyed God. Or did she then have intercourse with God to have Seth? Do you even realize the paradox that you would place yourself into? Further, if you contrast this verse with 8.37, you would have to call Abraham a son of the devil as well. This is an ignorant and racist thought.

    The murder was the ‘murder’ of Adam and Eve, when they ‘died’ from the presence of God.

    We are all born of Eve.

    This doctrine is filfth, garbage, sewer. It stands squarely against God and His Christ. I am not sure I can pray for you.

    Reply

  150. E.T. You are an ignorant racist, and so is Arnie Murrary. First, in 37, Christ acknowledged that the Pharisees where children of Abraham. See, you actually have to read these things. Thus, if in verse 44, these same children of Abraham were now literal children of the devil, that makes Abraham a child of satan, you illiterate racist.

    Cain is not named in the line of Christ because that line was destroyed in the Flood, when only Noah, the son of Seth, lived. Pretty simply there, unless you say that Noah was a child of the devil,which now makes Christ a child of the devil. You realize that your ignorance has turned into blasphemy. Your doctrine is from your father, the devil.

    You would have us racists. Tell me, do you still lynch at S.Chapel? Still throw pennies at the Jews, or what do you call them, the Kenites? Seriously, how warped are you?

    Reply

  151. Further,

    Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.” (Genesis 4:1 NKJV)

    Thus, the idiotic and heretical doctrine that Eve mated with the devil to produce Cain is proved wrong. Adam was Cain’s father, and the praise of the birth was given to the LORD.

    Reply

  152. You realize, of course, you biblically illiterate racist, that Adam is Hebrew for Man, right? Further, by context, the man in 4.1 is the same man thrown from the garden after he had come to know right and wrong, Adam. The book actually happens to be the bible. Twins? You realize that Twins would then have to have the same parents, right?

    Adam and Eve conceived she brought forth both children – Cain was no different than Abel, you heretic.

    Reply

  153. E.T., your prayer to your father the devil does not for me. So what? Cain killed Abel – only an illiterate racist would say that this has anything to do with intercourse between the devil and Eve. You and Arnie have a sick and perverted mind, filled with illicit sexual union.

    Reply

  154. Ignorant Racist, you realize that you have no scriptures to back up anything you say, right? Not even logic. Just because Pope Arnie says something in no way makes it true. The adversary was more than a man, epitome of biblically illiteracy, as he was a fallen angel. Can to tell me how angels and human can mate when there will be no such thing in heaven? Are you sure you are not worshiping Zeus?

    You realize, that the bible is pretty straight forward here – Adam, (Hebrew for Man) actually fathered the child. Only the penthouse flavoured mind of Bishop Arnie, patron saint of the Klan would read of a perverted act of intercourse here.

    Oh ye who are intellectually behind and epoch, Adam was not created on the 8th day – the two creation accounts are a form of Hebrew parallelism.

    Prophet Arnie, miracle of the twelve level of hell, can only teach those that consider lynching a fine past time.

    This doctrine is perverse, and destructive. I do not know why they let you live in Minnesota – I thought that they were somewhat civilized in that part of the country.

    Reply

  155. You realize, you porn-o-phile, that the men in Sodom didn’t know that they were angels, right? They thought them men. So, you who sees the bible as a penthouse letter, your assumption is wrong. Further, no one is trying to scare you, oh ye who cannot read past Monsignor Arnie’s Biblical Thought for Dummies – I was commenting that I find it odd that someone in Minnesota could be that badly educated.

    No anger towards the doctrine of the Church, or hatred to things of God, just to the mind set of racism and the use of the bible, however erroneously, to promote lynching. I commented on your and Cardinal Arnie, patriarch of the Bunny Ranch, very perverse appetites and reading them into the bible. Sons of God where the sons of Seth. You would know this, if you had actually read the bible instead of Arnie the Dirty Old Racist Biblical Commentary on Perverse Doctrines.

    Reply

  156. Not a Pastor, I.R, and again, or ye of paranoia land, this was not fear – but a comment on the fact that I had assumed Minnesota a bit more civilized than those that use lynching as a past time.

    Reply

  157. Wait…you actually believe that UFO abductions are happening? And thus you believe in UFO’s? Really? And you think this makes you credible how? Is Arnie from Venus? Or Vulcan perhaps? Oh, this is rich…

    Actually, according to Genesis 6.4, the ‘giants’ existed before the sons of God and the daughters of men intermarried. But then again, you believe in Klingons.

    You think? Ha! It’s like saying a fish can live on land forever.

    But, then again, you worship Yoda.

    Reply

  158. Actually, your use of that shows your stupidity. Second, what evidence was presented that the early Church did not believe in the ‘sons of Seth’? Further, what evidence do you have that the Early Church believed in the false doctrine of the serpent seed?

    Actually, the book of Ezekiel speaks about angels, in a very prophetic tone, much like Revelation. Your belief in UFO’s, however, make me doubt the sanity of your mind? Are you typing this from a mental hospital?

    Actually, I could care less about personal attacks – which is a lie you make. Umm…expecting the truth from you I do not.

    E.T. (I get it now), I seriously doubt you have read past your idol’s article. But really, I bet you spend all your time reading Sci-fi.

    The only prayer that I can offer is for you to seek help, and once you have it, please accept it. I realize that you may no longer post here, and that is fine, but remember, on these pages, you will see the truth of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, one unhindered by the likes of Arnold Murray. If you follow Murray, you will end up in hell. You need help, mental, spiritual, emotional.

    Reply

  159. Actually, Kandy Cain, you can see that I back up everything I say with the bible – when I am talking about doctrine. Arnie teaches ‘secret things’ which he has pulled our of thin air. Tell me, do you believe in UFO’s as well?

    Reply

  160. Kandy, you didn’t answer my question – do you believe in UFO’s like E.T. does?

    Reply

  161. Kandy, you never did answer the question, which I assume you find just as laughable as I do. Yes, E.T. believes that angels are aliens, and that Enoch was abducted, which I assume Murray as taught as well. Actually, part of the ministry is to insure the true Church against false prophets and doctrines, both of which gives me the ability to go after Murray when needed. If one does not put a line in the sand and say that this or that is wrong, then people are free to believe anything, such as the serpent seed doctrine of Murray.

    God has established a ministry

    for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head–Christ– from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. (Ephesians 4:12-16 NKJV)

    To allow Murray to teach his garbage without a reasoned response and warning would be to allow this false doctrine entry into the Church. We must not do that.

    Reply

  162. Kandy, you realize that by your own standards, an entire mass of preachers, all preaching different things, from the beginning of Christianity, are all right. If you have learned anything from him, forget it. Remember, there are plenty that can fool, plenty that can mislead, and all can look so much like the original, that the very elect may be deceived – if possible. Further, remember, a man who teaches false doctrine will teach you out of his own secrets, and instruct you to blind your eyes against the truth. I would suggest that you have a good prayer meeting, by yourself, or join us for one. I will pray with you. I will pray with you until one of our eyes are opened.

    You have said the truth – all can come to repentance, even those that have promoted false doctrines, such as Arnold Murray. Kandy, you will not have a second chance to repent from this false doctrine when the End comes. Repent now.

    Remember, finally, that there have been a mass of preachers from the beginning of the Age that have preached line my line – libraries are filled with such commentaries – and many of those will tell you you need to pray to God to protect you against those false doctrines, as opposed to their own ‘true’ doctrine. A man’s claims of his own self does not measure the man in righteousness.

    Seek the Spirit in this matter, Kandy.

    Reply

  163. Kandy, if you believe this, then you will join a whole host of people against Christ.

    First, we find that Adam ‘knew’ Eve and she conceived:

    Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.”

    The JW’s translate their bible based on their doctrine, will you do the same or will you let your doctrine be translated by the Bible? It plainly says that Adam is the father of Cain. Kandy, if anyone has told you otherwise, they have lied to you, and are leading you to hell.

    Remember, if you misconstrue that the ‘tree’ and the ‘fruit’ were intercourse, then you would have to accept that God had allowed Adam and Eve to engage in intercourse with every other tree and fruit in the Garden.

    And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, “You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.”‘
    (Genesis 3:2-3 NKJV)

    If you believe anything but the bible, including Arnold Murray, then you are against Christ, and if you stand against Him, then He will say to you depart from Him. The only evidence that you have on this is Arnold’s false teaching, which neither of you, or any of the other defenders of the evil one have been able to support from Scripture – only what Murray has taught.

    Further, we know from Jude that those angels that had left heaven in sin were cast into chains. Tell me, how could this one angel have escaped? Is God a liar? Are the words of Moses really code words for alien abductions? Seriously, Kandy, you need to really pray about this.

    Reply

  164. Kandy, do you realize that your partner in this, E.T., supports the notion of UFO’s an alien abductions of Enoch along with his serpent seed theology.

    No matter what regime we live under, we will always have the freedom to study God’s word, if we want to. Granted, we pay the physical consequences, but God still demands certain things of us.

    You mention the two or three witnesses. Tell me, Kandy, besides metaphors, what notion is there, except in the Kabbalah, that Eve mated with a serpent? Remember, we have to rightly divide the word of God, which means we allow scripture to interpret scripture.

    What part of what I teach doesn’t make sense? That Christ is God? That there is no serpent seed theology? That we may all come to the grace of God? That the bible is just what it says it is?

    Reply

  165. Yes, the Serpent is identified with Satan, but how do you get ‘eat of the tree’ to mean intercourse?

    Kandy, I do not believe that you fully understand the theology, and the manner in which you arrive at that theology. That is easily seen when you confuse the discussion of UFO’s has having originated with me instead of your fellow Arnoldite, E.T. The biggest part about reading the bible is not to read it as a mystery code book and some preacher as the decoder ring.

    Remember, if you are the only group that believes your doctrine, and has for all of history, than you are leading a false doctrine.

    Reply

  166. Kandy, in other words, you accept E.T.’s statement on angels being Aliens and having abducted Enoch? Again, you have not answered the question.

    Reply

  167. I agree with you, Kandy. 2 questions:

    1.) Where does that put you with E.T. (the previous commenter on this post) who claims serpent seed, and alien abduction, and alludes that Arnold M. does the same?
    2.) If you believe as.n you interpret ‘eat of a tree’ as ‘intercourse’.n you interpret ‘eat of a tree’ as ‘intercourse’.

    Reply

  168. Hardly. Read what the bible says. First, it says that Adam and Eve to eat the fruit of any tree except that one tree. Kandy, upon the false doctrine of serpent seed, we would then say that God allowed promiscuity. Further, if you read, not only did Adam eat of the same fruit (which he admitted in Gen. 3.12) – which would have made him a homosexual – but he blamed God for it. Finally, follow Murray, explain Gen. 3.22 when God feared that Adam and Eve would eat of the tree of life – does this mean intercourse with the Son of God?

    Do you see how perverse this serpent seed doctrine is?

    Kandy, you are adament about God – and you seem sincere, but what are you sincere about? Remember, if you apply the metaphor to one thing in the story, then that metaphor must be applied to all instances of that in the story. Was Adam a homosexual? Did God fear that the humans would attempt to rape the Son of God?

    Kandy, seek God’s wisdom.

    Reply

  169. Wb, it disgusts me to no end, and makes me angry. I just don’t know what else to say. I hope that your family is well, this evening WB.

    Reply

  170. Kandy, you realize that it is your doctrine which is judged, right? And that doctrine brings up as must ire as false doctrines did for Paul? It is not hate for a person, but for the doctrines of that person – and that is acceptable. What you call hate is love for your soul, Kandy. No one hates you, nor do they dislike you, but we all stand worried for not just your soul, but those around you, and all of those that believe such garbage as that which comes out of the mouth of Arnold Murray.

    Do you hate me because I tell you the truth?

    Exactly what purpose did that scripture serve? Kandy, you have not once shown any scriptural evidence for anything that you believe? And yet, we are supposed to believe you?

    Kandy, out of love, don’t pass this chance by to interact with those that would love your soul.

    Reply

  171. Tammy, the thing is, is that everyone who reads this exchange can see what we have tried to do – in real love – for Kandy. You did great, and I am proud to host your comments.

    Reply

  172. So, you got confused with preachings actually seeking the two or three witnesses required in the Bible?

    Arnie is a false teacher. His serpent seed teaching is a racist slur upon the face of Christianity. You mention false teachers based on building gyms. I take it that doctrine means nothing to you?

    Tell me, where do white people come from?

    False Teacher, I hope you take the time to continue to study with us. If you give it time and prayer, God will open your eyes.

    Reply

  173. hesatrueteacher,

    I understand the desire to sit under preaching that walks through the Bible. This is a commendable desire, and it is one criteria I use when I have need of finding a church in which to minister. However, another criteria is that what is taught is accurate, particularly from the pulpit. If the preacher preaches/teaches error, then I have no desire to attend that church. I would recommend a similar strategy for you.

    If Murray were teaching truth, then he would not preach that Eve and satan had sex with the result being Cain. Since he teaches that, then he is teaching error and is a false teacher.

    Reply

  174. Kenneth, I was not speaking to you about promotion. That was someone else, and those comments were deleted. Sorry about that.

    Reply

  175. GB, I am not wrong about Murray. I have proven that with everything else that I have written. And no, I am for none of the other stuff either.

    Reply

  176. ET – the snakes myth is just that, a myth, and no, no Scripture to back that up.

    Reply
  177. ET

    Poly you say that as if you are sure.

    Remember “God” will not be mocked. His plan is simple and his letter to us is the Word.

    Also there are many people that don’t even believe in Jesus or that Jesus was just a man. If you read the story of the death of Jesus you will read that those behind the murder of innocent Jesus was the church. If you want to believe what these churches have been saying about rapture and flying away then… sobeit.

    You holding someone’s post because they do not want to argue with you in absurb. At least I got to read GB’s comment in my email.

    And every assumption you have about Pastor Murray is wrong :) Murray has a gift of bringing the Bible alive.

    Why does Pastor Murray reading the Bible word for word and line by line upset you so much?

    PS… The snakes in the Bible referred to the children of Cain. Those same children were run from Ireland by Saint Patrick. Read the verse John 8:44 and study the book!

    You’re not going to fly away. When you know this you will remember.

    Every Knee Will Bow! AMEN!! :)

    Thank “God” for Pastor Murray!!!

    Reply

  178. ET,

    The Church was not behind the murder of Christ. The only ones mocking God are the likes of Arni M. You and your silly attempts to place me in line with others shows your lack of education, or perhaps, rather, your educational source. I will hold any comment that I feel like holding – this is my blog, and if someone wishes to issue ‘final statements’ to which no one can respond, then they need to get their own blog.

    Murray teaches an evil, racist doctrine, which would destroy good people of every color. He reads what he desires, and states what makes him feel good, leading all into that fiery ditch.

    How silly are you that you take legend and confuse it with theology.

    I would suggest you throw away Murray and pick up the Bible. You are lost without it.

    Reply

  179. ET, you obviously have little to no understanding of the word of God, which is not surprising, given that you believe the satan seed heresy. Those behind the death of Christ were not the church.

    Reply

  180. That sure is a different set of words than you previously used. Murray does not read the bible ‘verse by verse’ as the Satan Seed racism is not here there. He interprets according to his ‘truth.’ No one is here stating a ‘6,000’ year old earth or supporting man-made traditions, unlike the Christian Identity soldier Arni M. who in fact has carried that vile doctrine of men onward. And who cares concerning your view of Revelation (no ‘s’). You hare puffed up in your on conceits. You are arguing that which we are not even discussing.

    Every knee shall bow – to Jesus Christ, not to Arni. M and his heretical serpent seed doctrine. This is a most vile doctrine, created in the depths of hell, to bring hatred and ugliness upon the world. I can laugh at other doctrines of others, but this doctrine, this doctrine alone boils my blood because of the hatred and fear, and racism, which preceded it and which follows it.

    ET, I would suggest that you actually read the bible – first, throw away anything of Murray’s that you have, and seek the wisdom of God. I have no doubt in my mind that you can find the Truth on those pages. And we stand here to help.

    Reply

  181. The Bible says to give honor where honor is due – Arnie deserves no honor for the deception that he spews forth.

    Reply

  182. Uh, Jamie, the hatred is not at the man himself, but at Arnie’s false doctrine.

    Reply

  183. Jami, how can anyone who believes something like the idea that Satan had sex with Eve and gave birth to Cain claim to be able to read? It goes against what the text itself states.

    Reply

  184. Well, George, anyone with a bit of common sense would see that that was a link. I cannot hold everyone’s hands, now can I? The ‘by Polycarp’ is part of the background script of the page. Again, common sense is needed in this world of ours.

    What other stuff did you provide? You mean the stuff what went to spam? Well, George, I went ahead and saved it for you, not that it will do you any good, as the garbage that you seem to spew is the same that has been dealt with before, not just on this post, but others that I have done about ole Arnie M. Murrary is a racist, and his theology is of the worse kind.

    Because I have a stated policy about allowing links to disgusting and vulgar sites, I am removing several of yours.

    Reply

  185. No, George, I did not attack FactCheck, just the stuff that people put on there defending Arnie. You can complain what you want, but honestly, of the thousands of people that have seen this article, I think that you are one of the first who actually couldn’t tell that I had clearly linked to the original post.

    Reply
  186. George Smyrna

    How could you claim you know anything about what is on FactNET.org, if you don’t even know the correct name of the site?

    And so what do you do instead? Highlight the trivial, the issue with the link to Sanchez’s article, while ignoring more than 30,000 posts written about the SC on FactNET.org.

    Charges of racism, anti-semtism, and so many of the antics and deceitful tactics of SC critics are found all over those boards.

    You are dishonest, is that what the Bible teaches you? You claimed you deleted “links” of mine, because they led to “vile and disgusting sites” when I merely mentioned FactNet.org, which is published by a man who spent years fighting Scientology. That’s your idea of a “vile and disgusting site”? And what went to spam? I don’t see anything missing here, and I’m surprised you even posted what I have sent, save the link to FactNet.org

    Those kind of tactics are what is truly vulgar and disgusting.

    I knew right then you not only didn’t know what you were talking about, but to accuse me of posting “links” to “vulgar and disgusting sites” in an effort to overly dramatize and demonize my comments, is typical of the dishonesty I’ve come to know all to well in SC detractors. Calling FactNet “Fact Check” affirms you don’t have a clue about the site. I linked to one site, that is hardly “vulgar and disgusting.” What’s your real name, Glenn Talley?

    Say what you will about Murray and the SC, but it’s your brand of Christianity that needs to be suppressed. Murray doesn’t teach people to be dishonest.

    Thousands of people read your blog? I doubt it, but it isn’t worth making an issue of. Bill O’Reilly you’re not.

    Something else you don’t know about: that shady, left wing SPLC. It’s obvious you have no clue about that organization, for if you did, the last source for info about anything would be that “vulgar and disgusting” organization.

    Here’s a couple more “vulgar and disgusting” links for you:

    Learn how uninformed people like you support an anti-Christian agenda by your vulgar and disgusting link to the SPLC:

    I doubt very seriously, like your feigned knowledge of FactNET,and complete ignorance of the SPLC, you have ever watched the SC programming yourself, and rely on biased, irresponsible so-called journalism of people like Casey Sanchez, and rumor mongers like Lori Avery, aka “SC Revealed”, who took advantage of the attitude and agenda of the SPLC by writing them with her dishonest vitriol re the Shepherd’s Chapel.

    After learning what the Morris Dees and the SPLC is all about, I certainly understand how they were more than happy to write a smear piece on Murray and the SC. If those behind the SPLC aren’t wolves in sheep’s clothing, there aren’t any.

    Reply

  187. Well, Ken, I guess I must have struck a nerve. I never said anything about Fact-whatever, just the garbage that is on there about ole uncle Arnie. Since I have stated that several times, I feel that you should have caught on. Your trivial words about this subject only show the futility of discussing it with you.

    Murrary’s brand of hate is disgusting, teaching abhorrent doctrines for the Gospel. It is a shame that anyone would take even a minute to defend him and his garbage.

    Is it difficult for you to read what I have written? I never said that thousands of people read my blog, although it is ranked 364,904 in the world, and averages about 4500 a day. What I said was concerning the number that have visited this particular post.

    I do know of the SPLC, and I was involved in groups targeted by the SPLC. As a member of a political movement a nearly a decade ago, which the SPLC targeted as a hate group, I have no special love for Morris Dees, but the truth is still the truth – which many more, including LetUsReason, speak.

    Reply

  188. No, Ken, I just didn’t feel like having vulgarity post on the site which is supposed to be devoted to the Lord. I didn’t read them, really, just scanned through the usual garbage.

    Reply

  189. Uh huh, that’s why my other posts stand. They aren’t any more or less “vulgar” (your escapist term) that the accepted posts. You just have been overcome by your fear. No, matter, neither you nor any of the other CBers have been unable to bring down the SC, if anything, your opposition actually helps the SC.

    Because those who really take a look at the SC, and not depend on websites like you do, know there is much more to what is taught than the overly simplistic, vague and even very dishonest depictions of what the SC actually teaches.

    More than twenty years the SC has been on TV, and if even 10% of what you clowns accuse the SC of were true, at least one major media outlet would have been all over the SC.

    But even the mainstream media, that has no real morals when it comes to their journalism, won”t touch it, and they love beating up on ministries.

    Signed,

    David Ken Mitchell Murray lol!

    2009 January 8
    Dudley permalink

    I believe that Arnold Murray’s other son defends his father’s racist cult on the internet and goes by a cyber moniker as “smyrna” as well as hundreds of other pseudonyms. All in the family.
    Reply

    *
    2009 January 8
    Polycarp permalink

    Dudley, thanks for letting me know that. I which I knew the other monikers.
    Reply

    Reply

  190. George, I am praying for all of those that is place. It presents a horrible doctrine, a perversion of the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ. And I am praying for you. George, the thing is, is that people know the ins and outs of the SC and those defend it. Just as their is a network to ‘defend’ the undefendable, there is a network which stands to shed light about them.

    No, I know that those of the SC generally do not use the web to research the past of Arnie or the results of his doctrine. Cults generally discourage fact finding.

    Ken, Geroge, David, who ever you are, it is a shame that anyone would preach the horrible stuff that Arnie does, but it is more of a shame to those who would defend it.

    Reply

  191. No, Et, as anyone can see, the only reason that I return is because someone post a comment. I feel that if someone posts a comment than I has blog owner should acknowledge it, and as someone who knows the truth about Arnie, if said comment is wrong, I will correct the commentator.

    ET, aren’t you the one that said a belief in alien life is compatible with SC teaching? No one is calling God a liar – just Arnie, the false prophet.

    ET, if defensiveness comes from Satan, then you, and George, Ken, and the many others that defend a Arnie must be directly from the bottomless pit. Nice logic you have there. Deception does come from satan – see previous sentence. Freedom of Speech? This is a blog, not a public institution. Learn the difference. If I do not want vulgarity displayed here, I will not allow it. Period. Not even God believes in freedom of speech.

    ET, what Jesus? THe green Jesus that you worship? The racist Jesus of Arnie Murrary?

    What you need to to put down the Star Trek and pick up the bible. There in will you find the true Jesus CHrist.

    Reply

  192. ET, only cowards make last statements and run. You have a very mistaken belief on my eschatology – which is laughable, because eschatology does not play a role in salvation, to an extent. ET, you are so messed up that you cannot see the fig tree for your space aliens and Arnie’s racism. I implore you, for your own soul’s sake, to have a meaningful discussion – from the bible – and leave behind all the things that you have so far in error learned.

    Reply

  193. Ken, how much anger you must have deep within you, and how defensive you become over a false prophet. Actually, I do not simply accept anything, but research it. Ken, you stated that I had one source, yet, I have highlighted another, to which you response not to your previous assertion, but now with another one. This is indeed a straw man argument. Your theology and ideas do not hold weight, but instead of defending them, you attack and distract. Again, the perfect example of straw man.

    Your assumption that those that belief in the literal serpent in the Garden must then belief that the fruit was an apple is quite simple a silly notion. While the serpent was real, the type of the fruit was never mentioned. It was, however, not sexual intercourse, otherwise, you would have to interpret the other passages in that same section of Scripture which would have God fearful that Adam and Eve would rape the Tree of Life. Your theology is illogical, and disgusting.

    The sons of God, Seth, did marry the daughters of men, Cain. Pretty simple.

    Reply
  194. ET

    Hey Poly, I’ve not gone! :) I only said farewell meaning goodbye. Not all goodbyes are forever. 😉

    I’m not messed up. I don’t lay in wait for Bible believers.

    As long as you call names there won’t be a civil conversation. Pull the log out from your eye, Man. hehe

    later :)

    Reply
  195. ET

    HAHAHAHAHA

    Well at least one out of three of my posts made it through. And I know you read them because you responded to them!

    Anyways, Poly……

    Where you see anger, I see passion. Where you see defensiveness I see defense. You, Poly, are defensive and the other d that comes from the devil. Not only do you hold, tightly I may add, to the lies told to you. You are a sheep. There are the elect, those people who are persecuted because they speak truth and aren’t afraid of it!!

    Who did Cain marry? Those are the Kinites. What is the fruit of the loins referring to from the Bible? How many times does the Bible refer to a tree as the symbol for a man?

    I’m here, Poly. Don’t publish my posts. But I know and always will know that you speak with a forked tongue and that you do in fact read every single word that comes through this blog.

    Good Day Sir! hehe

    Reply

  196. ET, you need more help that I can give you. Farewell does indeed mean gone. Applying it at the end of a comment, would lead anyone to believe that you had finally and for good left the conversation. ET, you are no bible believer.

    Reply

  197. ET, you really need to stop lying about the publishing your posts bit.

    You readily redefine what you need to to defend yourself. Shame that you have to lie even to yourself to defend your men from outer space theology. Et, since you, like George – who disappeared when you arrived – are here only to instigate, until I see something substantive from you, such as biblical verses, then neither you nor Ken/David/George will be allowed to post here.

    ET, I am praying for the people of SC. They truly need the Lord in their lives.

    Reply

  198. In who’s name? Arnie? The false white god that you have created? I’ll let this go on so long, In Arnie’s Name, because I think it is funny to watch you guys, even in Florida, come out to support Arnie.

    Actually, according to those nasty historical documents, Arnie is a racist and is connected to the Christian Identity movement.

    Of course, because you cannot discuss the issues at hand, you have to pull a straw man and focus on something else. I’ll let you discuss politics all you want, that is not the topic of this post.

    You came down hard on me? Ha! Arnie’s name, that just funny – considering that you attacked Johnson and Carter – Johnson! – instead of defending Arnie, you didn’t come down hard on anything.

    Please, return only if you have the ability to discuss this issue of Arnie’s racism and theology with Scripture. If you do not return in such a manner, I will note that you have no legs to stand on.

    Reply

  199. ET, since you have attempt to comply, I will let you comment through. The problem is, is that I do not believe in the Rapture, at least not like 99% of the world does. And the other problem is, is that this verse has nothing to do with the Rapture. And, that passage is a pretty bad translation:

    and say, “Thus says the Lord GOD: “Woe to the women who sew magic charms on their sleeves[1] and make veils for the heads of people of every height to hunt souls! Will you hunt the souls of My people, and keep yourselves alive? And will you profane Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, killing people who should not die, and keeping people alive who should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies?” “Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against your magic charms by which you hunt souls there like birds. I will tear them from your arms, and let the souls go, the souls you hunt like birds.
    (Ezekiel 13:18-20 NKJV)

    Personally, I agree that the rapture is a lie told to sell books, but that is 1.) not what that passage is about and 2.) it has has nothing to do with Arnie’s theology

    Reply

  200. IHM,

    First, my ‘acronym’ is not PC, merely Polycarp. So, no, it’s not ironic at all. Some much hate and ugliness in your post, and some many off the wall things. Were to start?

    Um, the KJV was first made in 1611, has had undergone many changes since then. It is a mere translation, like all others, and like all others, is not perfect. To say it is, is to say something not found in Scripture – which you seem to be okay with doing. BTW, the NKJV was not ‘translated from’ the KJV. You realize that the KJV was translated from the Greek and Hebrew, right?

    The passage in question are about fasle prophets who attempt to lead God’s people astray. It as about those same false prophets who hunt the people of God like birds. So, God is comparing His people to birds. Using your logic, that means, that God’s people will fly away.

    ONE Scripture, 1 God, & 1 Word AKA the “Holy Trinity,” & 1 True Christ.

    Now, that’s funny, because God is the Word, Christ is God, and Christ is the Word. Yet, you have God, Christ, and the Word. You separate Christ from the Word. My goodness.

    As a true Christian, Arnie is not my brother. He has to repent, and come by the way of the Cross before he can be one. His doctrine tells us that he has not. The God of Arnie is the same false god of so many before and after him.

    IHM, nothing you have done has been in love, because you truly do not know the Lord. Let us talk about Him, and we’ll see if we can get you there.

    For the future, when you are attempting to debate, try to hold to one point until it is settled. Use paragraphs. Use coherent sentences. And above all, stay on topic.

    Reply

  201. IHM,

    The KJV says this:

    And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you? And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies? Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
    (Ezekiel 13:18-20 KJVA)

    While the NKJV says this:

    and say, “Thus says the Lord GOD: “Woe to the women who sew magic charms on their sleeves[1] and make veils for the heads of people of every height to hunt souls! Will you hunt the souls of My people, and keep yourselves alive? And will you profane Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, killing people who should not die, and keeping people alive who should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies?” “Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against your magic charms by which you hunt souls there like birds. I will tear them from your arms, and let the souls go, the souls you hunt like birds.
    (Ezekiel 13:18-20 NKJV)

    While both may essentially say the same thing – that the false prophetesses hunt the souls that fly (birds), the NKJV is plainer.

    Reply

  202. i was watching his sermon and i noticed that he says in the beginning before the sermon starts “BLESS US GOD SATAN ” HE SAYS SATAN SO FAST YOU HAVE REALLY PAY ATTENTION I WATCHED 3 SERMONS BACK TO BACK AND THE 3RD TIME IT WAS CLEAR TO ME WHAT HE SAID .this is so bother some because i thought finally verse by verse but i was deceived for a moment

    Reply
  203. rhonda perrine

    What you say about pastor murray is not true!!!! You misquote and state falsehoods about what he teaches. I suppose you are one of the many foolish, unlearned and misinformed people who still believe that there were actually two trees in GOD’s garden. Can you really think that our heavenly father would rest the fate of his entire creation on the branches of two trees. Read galations and you will see where we are told again what the “fruits” of these two “trees” are and you will see for yourself that the “trees” produced the same “fruits” from the beginning of HIS word to the end. Christ is repeatedly to this day and in the bible referred to as the Tree of Life and satan is , was and always will be referred to as the tree of the knowledge of evil!!! Get your facts straight before you slander a good man’s name and doctrine.

    Reply
  204. Gary DeVaney

    I have studied with pastor Arnold Murray for years as a critical Atheist. I am a fundamentalist Bible critic. My best debate is with a fundamentalist Clergy. If The God Murders website can assist Joel or others in their investigations, feel free to use it. It’s a work-in-progress that has been available on the internet for a few years. Last year it received 1.4 million hits. Regards, Gary DeVaney.

    Reply
  205. Brian Thompson

    He died of heart attack in 2013 His Name was Pastor David Murray. None of the three are false teachers of GODsS WORD. I guess some people will hold out to the very end when it is to late before they will hear the TRUE WORD OF GOD, not man.

    Reply
  206. Brian Thompson

    His name was David Murray. He died of a heart attack in 2013. They are NOT false in what they say unless You want to say GOD is false in what HE says In the 1611 King James Bible.

    Reply
  207. Brian Thompson

    David Murray was his name and he died of a heart attack in 2013. They are NOT false in what they say.

    Reply
  208. Maria Bender

    The more virulent the attack, the greater the fear provoking it – why should anyone be so afraid of Pastor Murray? All you self-proclaimed ‘scholars’ will never sway anyone who has earnestly studied with Pastor Murray and so can see the manipulation behind the ‘racist’ and ‘serpent seed’ captions you use to dissuade and alarm the ignorant and innocent. We know better than you what his teachings are in this regard, and they are not at all as you present them. Thank God for a Pastor who taught the Truth in all its subtleties and complexities, who encouraged a personal relationship with God beyond any Pastor. Thank God for Shepherd’s Chapel. Pastor’s teachings are not so simplistic as you pretend and encompass a breadth and depth his critics know will prove them wrong should they truly explore them. He preached loving obedience to God’s will, discernment in our study of God’s Word and our interactions with the world, and the hard work of responsibility vs. Sunday forgiveness for a sin-again week. We celebrate the life of this great teacher who was also, yes, human, which is why he insisted his students do their own research rather than taking the word of any man for anything. Pastor Murray never lied nor led anyone astray, he served God and God’s children devotedly and humbly all his life, and Dennis will do the same, Praise Jesus! Nothing you say, no lie, no matter how alarmist or wicked, can change the Truth of Pastor Arnold Murray’s service to his congregation around the world. But if it makes you feel important, if you think you can misdirect folks with your sound and fury signifying nothing, why, you just keep on shouting, while we keep on studying.

    Reply
  209. Joanna

    Pastor Murray is the best. He backs his statements with scripture. People are hungry for the meat from the scriptures instead of milk taught by most churches today.

    Reply

  210. Everyone backs their statements with Scripture. Everyone. Murray is no different than abusing Scripture and others

    Reply
  211. mr. king

    He says say, not Satan, i thought the same thing for a little bit, luckily i had a DVR system, and im starting to really realize any one who criticizes Dr. Murry is just ignorant

    Reply
  212. Deborah Hill

    Please post the link to this sermon. I have a dear friend who is in this to her eyeballs.

    Reply
  213. Brian Thompson

    Thomas, What was the title of thissermon? I have to hear this 4 myself. Thanks Brian thompson

    Reply
  214. Deborah Hill

    YOU are misled. Murray is a heritek. He will lead many to hell.

    Reply
  215. Deborah Hill

    The “tree” is refered to as the tree of knowledge of GOOD and evil, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

    Reply
  216. Deborah Hill

    I would like to see a biblical debate between Murray and say, Johnathan Burris and Johnathan Cahn, two Messianic Jews, NOT KENITES, but men that were Rabbi’s then became saved by the shed blood of Jesus. I so doubt that your really stupid pastor would do so, as stupidly arrogant that he is. He is one of the false teachers warned about in the Bible, to come in the end times. Do your self a favor and GET SAVED.

    Reply

  217. Thank you for being smart enough to understand GODS holy word.
    If eve was the actule momma she would still be having babies
    Do people not believe that our Heavenly Father has the whole world
    Full of different races.

    Reply
  218. Brian Thompson

    Rhonda, I am a member of Shepherds chapel and i appreciate your support. It seems like, and it was prophesied, that people would reject the truth just as they did n Jesus’s time. They still do today . The more truth the more rejection and persecution and just look at what they say about Pastors Arnold and Dennis. I hope they give Arnold some slack now he is with the lord but his recordings will be on and people will not know he has passed and will still keep on bashing him. There is one truth and folks r going to find it out real soon that they should have listened. The Lord would not have let the Shepherds Chapel prosper as it did if they were teaching false doctrine. thanks brian thompson

    Reply
  219. Ronnie

    God Bless Sister, God blinded His sodish children and gave them no ears to hear, for he new if they heard: they would be held accountable. That’s why there is the Millennium maybe we can save some.

    Reply
  220. Maria Bender

    Amen amen amen, sister!!! YOU are a true student!!

    Reply

  221. hahahhahahahahahahhaha No. I was sorry to hear about the passing of his wife, however.

    Reply
  222. Deborah Hill

    Honey, any one who critisizes Murray is NOT ignorant. The ones that follow him are ignorant of Gods Word.

    Reply
  223. Deborah Hill

    Except that the criticism isn’t coming fropm the secular world, it’s coming from TRUE Christians, which your pastor is not. YOU are the parrots, reoeating and defending this completely false doctrine. Remember, God said that for those who would believe a ie, He would suppy one. That’s you and Murray.

    Reply
  224. Leah

    Genesis 3:13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

    “beguile”: in Hebrew:nasha’ naw-shaw’ a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:–beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly
    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    in Greek:exapatao ex-ap-at-ah’-o from 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly:–beguile, deceive
    “subtilty”. in Greek: panourgia pan-oorg-ee’-ah from 3835; adroitness, i.e. (in a bad sense) trickery or sophistry:–(cunning) craftiness, subtilty.

    Reply
  225. vivian

    oh poor little lost minded person you and your poor little minded persons know nothing about nothing that why you can’t come up with anything better to write about and he is not the church of Jesus Christ how little you know so sorry for you

    Reply
  226. Mary

    Has the Rumored passing Of Pastor David Murrary Be made offical?

    Reply
  227. Gary DeVaney

    Ah, the response of a believer.

    Reply
  228. Brian Thompson

    Give me 1 example of his teachings r false. No, I’ll make it easy gimmee 2.

    Reply
  229. Woody

    Why would a man of God knowingly mock those who follow our Father? Joel L Watts, you are a man of God, are you not? Have you not studied our Fathers’ Word? Yet you mock those who comment here; not teaching them with understanding but laughing at their devotion to their teacher and the conviction of their faith. I came here to learn something about your views. That is exactly what happened.

    Reply
  230. Brian Thompson

    I have great doubt about u Joel. I just ,by your comments about the Murrays, wonder what u really are. What brought on your hatred of the Murrays. It seems u have a personal vendetta against them. Come on tell us what they done to u,come on,come on tell us and we might understand just a little. Its every time I look at this site it is some more bashing of them. Why dont u bash non christian religeons instead of causing trouble n the Christian world.

    Reply
  231. Steve

    You mean ‘heretic’? Actually, all Protestants are heretics, sorry to burst your bubble4.

    Reply
  232. Steve

    He passed away/ Maybe YOU should do a little research.

    Reply

  233. All 3 pastors were active in the Ministry up until 2 of their deaths, Davids in December & Arnolds this month… People, Please have respect & let GOD be the Judge… it is not our place.

    Reply
  234. Steve

    Done enough in my life. But if you are going to be obsessed with this family, at least get the facts straight.

    Reply
  235. Helen

    I too, was glad I found someone that taught the Bible verse by verse and chapter by chapter. Soon into the lectures I realized their prayer was not sincere. I was taught to bow my head and close my eyes to pray. They never do, they just hurry to get it over with. I think maby some of what they say may be true but, for the most part, I think I will stick with what I was taught at a young age. “You come to the Father by the blood of Jesus Christ”. Believe in Jesus with all your heart and ye shall be saved. And, I do. One more thing. However it goes in the end, we better be ready and so should paster Murry. God help him if he is not.

    Reply
  236. Gary DeVaney

    You’re welcome. Check out The God Murders website The Atheist Maker page. Also: Did Jesus Christ Lie?

    Reply
  237. Brian Thompson

    Steve, Hum, all protestants r heretics. Just what is your religeous persuasion ? I need 2 know before I comment any further. I think I know anyway but tell me first. Brian Thompson

    Reply
  238. Brian Thompson

    Joel, None of them claimed to b prophets. The last prophet was John the Baptist. If you think The Murrays r false teachers. I would like to hear your teachings and By your hatred of Shepherds Chapel I say u sir would b the false teacher!

    Reply
  239. Brian Thompson

    Are u laughing at Pastor Murrays death and being sarcastic on top of that. Are you even a Christian sir. You r one that Jesus talked about as to not casting your pearls before swine!

    Reply

  240. I am not laughing about Murray’s death. I am laughing at your grammar and spelling, however.

    Reply
  241. Brian Thompson

    I am thru now. I shall cast no more pearls before SWINE!!!

    Reply

  242. I agree with you Maria Bender, I watched the Shepherd’s Chapel program for over a year after I came off active duty from the army, This story is no where near the truth! I am not sure if this person is just confused or mad at Arnold Murray, but either way It’s not polite or right to be gossiping horrible things about some one with out hard physical evidence! And one thing the teachers of Shepherds Chapel always stress to there listeners is not to believe man but to look it up your self! And I couldn’t agree more with that! From what I understand that is just what Jesus wanted to, when ever people asked Jesus questions, he would reply something like haven’t you read it your self?

    Reply
  243. Maria Bender

    Those without the depth to truly teach, those too shallow in the demands of their own egos to be effective, bring attention to themselves by attacking and mocking their superiors. Denigrating the Truth makes it no less The Truth. Watts knows nothing he can say or write has any power of God’s truth, as Pastor Murray does, but you’ve got to sell that book somehow, eh? LoL! Sound and fury signifying nothing, insult and rudeness when you have no credible answers, no moral or scholarly authority and definitely no humility nor the ability to engage in scholarly discourse and thus advance God’s Word and not your own pitiable need to feel superior. Try Shepherd’s Chapel if you really want to explore The Word vs. this guy using your ignorance to justify himself. Learn from a teacher, not a salesman.

    Reply

  244. bhahahhahahahahah bhahhahhahaha bhhhaaaaaa

    Murray is facing God at the moment, and no doubt will spend a considerable amount of time in hell, having his sins burned away.

    Reply
  245. Maria Bender

    Dude, I know you can’t help yourself, but I expect anyone reading this understands you’ve just proven my point for me.

    Reply

  246. Dudette, I think your point is “Murray is God” which, of course, is stupid. Thanks for playing

    Reply
  247. Maria Bender

    That was an even lamer response than I expected, and once again proves my point. Do you read the comments, or just refer to a list of standard insults? No one who reads my comments will find anywhere in it any belief in Pastor as God, you poor dear. You go ahead and ‘play’ while we keep studying.

    Reply

  248. umm… look at the way you referred to the dead guy as “Pastor”, complete with a capitalized “P”, present tense, and without a reference (the/a).

    Reply
  249. Maria Bender

    Really? A capital letter is your criticism? LoL!! You Keep Proving My Point For Me!

    Reply
  250. Maria Bender

    To quote you, ‘Hahahahahahahaha!!!’ Lovely to have you keep confirming my point! My work here is done except to invite anyone truly in love with God’s Word and willing to do the beautiful work to join the students at Shepherd’s Chapel and discover for yourselves what a real teacher is. Buh-bye, Watts, you made it so easy!

    Reply

  251. You have said you go to Shepherd’s Chapel. That is pretty darn far from “God’s Word.” May God forgive you

    Reply
  252. Maria Bender

    You and God’s Word are acquainted only as the latter serves your ego; no man purporting to teach’ God’s Word spends all his time denigrating others who are sincerely doing only that, nor mocking all who know better than to give credence to your empty words. Again, as Pastor Arnold Murray, and now Pastor Dennis Murray, have always said, do the work for yourselves and let no man, even those worthy Pastors themselves, lead your heart and spirit, Selah! In God’s Love, Joel, mistaken as you are.

    Reply
  253. Maria Bender

    Glad you know that much; there’s hope for you yet if you keep that uppermost and serve Jesus vs. ytour own ego, a lesson the humble Pastors of Shepherd’s Chapel teach by example. They refrain from judging other teachers and instead focus on bringing Jesus (The Living Word) to Life in our lives by giving their students the tools to accurate study and thereafter trusting God to gather them in. If only one reads this exchange and decides to find the Truth for themselves, I’m content that Truth will lead them rightly. So in this forum, dear Joel, negative and judgmental and valueless to God’s Word as you are, I guess you DO serve Jesus after all! Love His sense of humor … God Bless you.

    Reply

  254. “refrain from judging others”

    Let’s see- “Anglo-Saxons are the chosen race, and America and Great Britain are the lost tribes of the children of Israel.”

    Um…. not only is that racist, but that’s simply wrong.

    “If you believe in a literal 7 day creation you’re on you’re way to hell.”

    Granted, Young Earth Creationism is a lie, but it doesn’t send you to hell. Further, this is a judgmental statement.

    Murray is a racist nutter who is bat crap crazy.

    And here… http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/arnoldmurray.html

    Reply
  255. Maria Bender

    Twist words’ til they scream, Watts, doesn’t drown out the Truth we who study for ourselves have learned. Try to put words in the mouths of your critics to give yourself something to rail against, but that bitter fruit is still yours, you’re only being your own straight man. You offer nothing of God or Christ, only petulant tantrums when your vitriol and shallow ‘scholastics’ fail to turn us from a proven teacher and man of God. Having spent too much time today on you, I am reminded that the Pastors Murray and Shepherd’s Chapel have never wasted a moment on naysayers, so while it’s been fun watching you spin and sputter, I’ve accomplished what I intended and can now absent myself from this silly site. Watts, thank you for serving Christ today even if not as you intended, by giving me a forum to extend a loving invitation to all curious and sincere students, all who trust God before any man, to visit Shepherd’s Chapel and find out for yourselves what Watts lies to keep you from. Ask why, with so many blatantly false and wicked teachers out there, Watts’ is so dedicated to this futile vendetta against Shepherd’s Chapel. What faction, whose servant, would work so vehemently to keep you from seeing for yourself, or from even believing yourself capable of righteous discernment? Check it out first-hand, Beloveds, and welcome!

    Reply
  256. Maria Bender

    This must be a response to someone else since it has nothing to do with my comments, though I’ve noticed you ‘rebutt’ things no one has even mentioned, usually ending with a meaningless personal insult. While it might be fun to reply to your every response to me with another invite to your ‘readers’ to check out Shepherd’s Chapel for themselves, it’d be casting pearls into a void since there are so few, so it’s time to move on. Thanks for the opportunity to tell the Truth, and thanks for unwittingly proving my points for me. Love God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and learn the truth from the unadulterated Letter from God to His Beloveds, the Bible!

    Reply

  257. Murray has never said that whites are the chosen ones and that the u.s. and england are the the lost two tribes of israel. He said that the ten tribes fled the assyrians and migrated across the caucasus mts. and settled all of europe, and some eventually settled in north america. He also taught that God created ALL races and was happy with ALL of them each distincitively different but ALL distinctively NOBLE! not like this lunatic liar Dudley who has spewed lies on this blog like yourself stating Murray says blacks are a subhuman creature, created before the white race. Total lies; and any one can verify the truth of what I write by tuning in to the chapel on dish or direct t.v. I watched him from 1994 to present until his death in feb. everything he taught and said can be documented via 17 hours a day of video five days a week and on the website sat. and sun. You are an absolute liar and hater, I wish I could have five minutes alone with you but the Father will take care of you!

    Reply

  258. watts ,you are a bad seed, we well pray for you .it is your up bring in the c church .everyone of them has this better than everyone thinking……

    Reply
  259. Kevin DeFranco

    Paul states that Eve was Beguiled by satan. Beguiled means wholly seduced, check it out. I have listened to pastor Murray’s teaching on this, and he left a part out. satan told Eve that she would be just like God, how so? By creating or in this case procreating. What does that involve, pretty obvious isn’t it. The fallen angels came down and impregnated the daughters of men, so why so unbelievable to acknowledge that their leader could do it also? satan showed her..she showed Adam. The text states that she continued in labor and had Abel.

    Reply

Leave a Reply, Please!