Some rather odd KJVO talking points

At the New Living Translation’s Facebook page, I ran across this conversation:

AWH:

If you knew our Father, you would Love Thee ♥ ! He knew not our name before we were born. He knew our name before the world was ever created ♥ ! Forget Religion ! Be a 1611’er (The King James 1611 Authorized Edition) as to preserve the word of thy GOD and spread the truth ! All other Bibles are contaminated by man. The …KJV reads as a poem as this Bible was paid for by blood ! Read its history and ye shall know the truth ♥!

Problem – the KJV was not ‘paid for by blood’. It was authorized by King James and translated over a period of seven years. Tyndale paid for his version, a generation of so before, and remarkably similar to the KJV, but the KJV translators worked in peace.

Problem – ‘Forget religion’ because nothing says ‘non-religious’ like the KJVO position.

Tyndale Team:

Allan, the KJV is a wonderful translation of God’s Word into English that has served the church well for nearly 400 years, but it is in fact a translation, just like the NLT is. Human beings, relying on the Holy Spirit through prayer and careful scholarship, were involved in all translations, but this doesn’t mean they are contaminated. God is powerful and speaks through his Word, even in translation.

Problem – The Tyndale Team is way too nice, as at the first chance, I would have dispatched the guy very crudely.

AWH:

It is in fact an exact translation under threat of death and six did die. Read and learn that the great crusade was for the truth of the word and King James made this decree of death and as you research the history of this Bible you will see the Kings document and the Dead Sea Scrolls has not ever seen this Bible and reads nearly word for word missing part of Gen. and all of Enoch. COMMON SENSE(when you let men sit and vote upon rules it’s like letting the fox guard the hen house LOL ) Just as an example, the NIV is missing over 64,000 words and even took out Alpha and Omega. It reads as a poem when read as it is divine. The book is true and written beautifully. It needs no easy interpretation as we are suppose to be smarter not dumber. The KJV and the 2,000 year old Dead Sea Scrolls read alike. The Dead Sea Scrolls does not read like NLT, NIV or CAT IN THE HAT!!!!. READ THE HISTORY AND DO NOT ADD NOR TAKE AWAY FROM THIS BIBLE!!!!!

Problem – The translation was authorized and under the protection of the King of England and Scotland, and all the translators died. We all die.

Problem – The idea that the DSS and the KJV read rather alike is silly, but the Tyndale Team handles that. But really, do you think that A really knows what the DSS are?

Good example why healing only works sometimes besides not having true faith, it will not happen because you did not do what your Lord ask you to do because of man’s fingers in his book mislead you!!!!
KJV
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of… See More the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
NLT version:
Are any of you suffering hardships? You should pray. Are any of you happy? You should sing praises. 14 Are any of you sick? You should call for the elders of the church to come and pray over you, anointing you with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 Such a prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make you well. And if you have committed any sins, you will be forgiven.
Now while you are singing Praise I am doing what the Lord said ! Singing a song of Psalms. This means picking a situation that equals yours in Psalms and sing from this Holy Hymn Book !!! Not your picking of a any song outside of this book!!!!

Problem – The man has no clue as to translation techniques, but he gets worse.

Tyndale Team:

Allan, with respect, I have read the some of the Dead Sea Scrolls in Hebrew, as well as some of the Old Testament in Hebrew and almost all of the New Testament in Greek. The KJV is nothing like the originals, poetically or otherwise. That is because it is in a different language, and no two languages ever match up perfectly.

The KJV is an excellent translation into English, especially 17th Century English. And the NLT is an excellent translation into the English of today. Both translations are, in fact, God’s Word. Both were translated by human beings, consciously relying on the Holy Spirit to guide their work. Both translation teams were aware of the gravity of the task that was before them. And God was (and is) active in the translation of his Word for his people who think, speak, and read in English. The differences between translations are not a reflection of human corruption; rather, they are a reflection of God’s ongoing activity in the world and his desire that everyone will hear and understand the Gospel in their native language.

Comparing English translations to one another without reference to the original that underlies them both is very misleading. In the example you cited specifically, James 5:13 uses the Greek verb ψάλλω without any direct object specified, which the KJV translated “sing psalms,” but the NLT translated “sing praises,” as you point out. ψάλλω is only used 4 times in the New Testament, but only here did the KJV decide to use the word “psalms” connected to it. The other instances are Romans 15:9 (“sing”), 1 Corinthians 14:15 (“sing”), and Ephesians 5:19 (“making melody”).

Problem – The Tyndale Team still has too much patience

AWH:

Then simplified. NLT is translated from The 1611 and its direct interpretation was from Greek to English and Hebrew to English and under threat of death no personal interpretation or comment. And yes it does word for word mimick the Dead Sea Scrolls in interpretation. It reads like poetry naturally when it was interpreted into English . In Hebrew eand in Greek language, no. So, you are saying because you believe GOD may have guided men to write this NLT why? The KJV Bible was not good enough for men is why GOD had them to rewrite it? Did not at the end of the KJV tell you to not add nor take away from this book which men tried to do what you advocate to do and died?
It needed no new version as the KJV is as good as it gets. Do as you wil. As for me, I want the whole truth and shall keep his word Holy as GOD gave me a brain and I intend to know the difference between good and bad!!!!

Problem – AWH has no real clue to the bible and scriptures which existed before 1611. Like most KJVO’ers, he values the English over the Hebrew and the Greek.

Problem – Love the fact that A sees the NLT as a rewrite of the KJV. That logic just astounds me.

Tyndale Team:

Allan is wrong about the NLT; it is not ‘translated’ from the KJV. In fact, the NLT is translated directly from the original Greek and Hebrew into English. You can see the relationship between the Greek of the New Testament and the NLT yourself at http://NLTInterlinear.com/.

Problem – The Tyndale Team is just too patient.

This is by far, one of the worse examples of the King James Only argument, and not one of their best advocates. I didn’t see ‘Catholic’ mentioned or the other host of conspiracy theories. I did see the mention of Revelation 22.18-19, which is, indeed, in every translation and most MSS (if not all).

Ugh.

Post By Joel Watts (10,071 Posts)

Joel L. Watts holds a Masters of Arts from United Theological Seminary with a focus in literary and rhetorical criticism of the New Testament. He is currently a Ph.D. student at the University of the Free State, analyzing Paul’s model of atonement in Galatians. He is the author of Mimetic Criticism of the Gospel of Mark: Introduction and Commentary (Wipf and Stock, 2013), a co-editor and contributor to From Fear to Faith: Stories of Hitting Spiritual Walls (Energion, 2013), and Praying in God's Theater, Meditations on the Book of Revelation (Wipf and Stock, 2014).

Website: → Unsettled Christianity

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12 thoughts on Some rather odd KJVO talking points

  1. We try to be pretty patient in general on the facebook page, but feel free to let 'em have it yourself on those posts =) I thought the conversation might interest you, given your discussions about KJVO of late! -Laura

  2. It was very interesting, and perhaps as a penance, I am interested in these discussions, seeing that just a few years ago I would have been on the KJVO side!

    I cannot imagine the patience it requires to work at a bible publisher, in dealing with KJVO'ers.

    Thanks, Laura!

  3. I just happen to have written a couple KJVO articles beginning here, though they didn't start out as being specifically about KJVO. I could also post some rather unflattering material about King James himself, if I can find it again.

  4. Glad to help. :-) I posted one unflattering link at the NLT FB page, and would post another if it had some sources listed. But I am told by those who know secular history that James was, to put it politely, the kind of man the KJVOs would have executed. But they care not for such evidence, secular as it is, because they prefer to argue in circles, engage in special pleading, and generally defame all who dare to say the emperor has no clothes.

  5. But, unfortunately, when you push them into a corner, they will state that it was just the actual text that you have to worry about, all the while slamming modern translators and companies, etc… Always feel free to post links!

  6. Uh… I posted again but it said it went to moderation even though my previous one went through right away.

  7. I have it set to a moderation on links. I think I added you to a list to skip moderation, but we'll see….

  8. I prefer the King James Version, 1769 Oxford Text, to any other Bible. However, I do not claim to be KJVOnly.

    • I generally have no problem with the beauty of the KJV. Of course, I (in a very high English accent) am a Cambridge man, myself :)

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