Reports coming from the United Pentecostal Church International, the largest Oneness Pentecostal organziation, indicate that author David Bernard has been elected the General Superintendent, succeeding Kenneth Haney who has fellowshiped with Trinitarian Pentecostals and Charismatics. Bernard was not challenging Haney.
I have to wonder if the UPCI will now move to a more militarant modalist position under Bernard’s leadership.
Joel Landon Watts is a Masters of Theological Studies student with a focus in Mimetic Criticism of the Gospel of Mark. His interests include exploring the role of mimesis in human civilization, specifically in the study of religion and media, as well as science fiction and the way in which it has allowed mythology to be explored in light of scientific ideals of the past century. Currently, he is a TA for Old Testament at United Theological Seminary under Dr. Vivian Johnson, Associate Professor of Old Testament. His first book, Rhetorical Strategies of the Evangelist: Mimetic Criticism of the Gospel of Mark, is expected to be published by Wipf and Stock early next year. He is currently co-editing a book on moving from Fear to Faith (Energion, 2013).
very interesting..
very interesting..
Are not all forms of “oneness” doctrine modalist? Emanuel Swedenborg was a proponent of Modal Monarchianism. His was a sort of process form of Christ uniting his human form to the divine. And early process theology. But the true Incarnation is a real lasting union of God & Man: one person, two natures – hypostatic union, and thus eternally God & Man since.
Fr. R.
Fr. Robert, I think if you examine Bernard, you will see that his writings are different than that of say, Dulle, or others. I know of a few Pentecostals who prefer French to Bernard.
Are not all forms of “oneness” doctrine modalist? Emanuel Swedenborg was a proponent of Modal Monarchianism. His was a sort of process form of Christ uniting his human form to the divine. And early process theology. But the true Incarnation is a real lasting union of God & Man: one person, two natures – hypostatic union, and thus eternally God & Man since.
Fr. R.
Fr. Robert, I think if you examine Bernard, you will see that his writings are different than that of say, Dulle, or others. I know of a few Pentecostals who prefer French to Bernard.
But the question is not one of how some teacher defines or explains the oneness doctrine, but what is it’s core and can I say creedal definition? Your own position is not fully modalist now is it? But as you say, and “economy” or economic Trine of God, yes?
Fr. R.
Economic is fine.
For the most part, Oneness creed’s revolve around this:
God was the Father in Creation, the Son in Redemption, and the Spirit in Regeneration
But the question is not one of how some teacher defines or explains the oneness doctrine, but what is it’s core and can I say creedal definition? Your own position is not fully modalist now is it? But as you say, and “economy” or economic Trine of God, yes?
Fr. R.
Economic is fine.
For the most part, Oneness creed’s revolve around this:
God was the Father in Creation, the Son in Redemption, and the Spirit in Regeneration
Yes, but even Trinitarians can accept this on the surface. But when we seek to unpack this, it is either Trinitarian, or it is Modalist. The surface recedes into the deeper search and doctrine of God triune, for here God is still a unity in a triunity, which is the Trinitarian God. And Christ is that eternal Son (Logos), from and with the Father…St. John 1:1 ; 1:14 ; 1: 18.
Fr. R.
However, Fr. Robert, what biblical mandate is their to unpack biblical theology and thus add to the words of the Apostles?
Yes, but even Trinitarians can accept this on the surface. But when we seek to unpack this, it is either Trinitarian, or it is Modalist. The surface recedes into the deeper search and doctrine of God triune, for here God is still a unity in a triunity, which is the Trinitarian God. And Christ is that eternal Son (Logos), from and with the Father…St. John 1:1 ; 1:14 ; 1: 18.
Fr. R.
However, Fr. Robert, what biblical mandate is their to unpack biblical theology and thus add to the words of the Apostles?
Joel,
The mandate is simply biblical exegesis, it is in exegeting or seeking this biblical hermeneutic of the science of interpretation that we seek and find the Apostles Doctrine, etc. So to unpack a scripture verse/verses is simply to look into the grammar and historical sense and reality of the text. This is adding nothing!
Fr. R.
I can understand, Fr. Robert, but I fear that while many unpack it, they restuff it with unbiblical precepts, terms, and ideas.
Joel,
The mandate is simply biblical exegesis, it is in exegeting or seeking this biblical hermeneutic of the science of interpretation that we seek and find the Apostles Doctrine, etc. So to unpack a scripture verse/verses is simply to look into the grammar and historical sense and reality of the text. This is adding nothing!
Fr. R.
I can understand, Fr. Robert, but I fear that while many unpack it, they restuff it with unbiblical precepts, terms, and ideas.
PS..But in this, we also find the theology of the Church, and the OT Judeo-theology of Covenants, etc. (Acts 2:42 etc.)
Fr. R.
See too, Rom. 1:2 / Rom. 16:25-26.
Finally, Theology is simply the study and doctrine of God!
Fr. R.
PS..But in this, we also find the theology of the Church, and the OT Judeo-theology of Covenants, etc. (Acts 2:42 etc.)
Fr. R.
See too, Rom. 1:2 / Rom. 16:25-26.
Finally, Theology is simply the study and doctrine of God!
Fr. R.
New blog posting, David Bernard Elected UPCI General Superintendent – http://tinyurl.com/yamm6el
Joel,
Unpacking a verse or verses is itself that biblical science and discipline, we must use not only grammar but history. That is where we also look, but with great caution. As we can see this is a spiritual enterpise. As in the Reformation itself, God was literally preparing the Church, but the main players came to the fore, but again in time…Luther and later Calvin.
At the end of the first century and into the second, leading to the third it was a Patristic effort Polycarp etc., with Irenaeus and Terullian, to Clement and Origen. Then finally to Holy Scripture itself, but always with the pilgrim Church. Then at least in the West, we have our Augustine of Hippo. All long the way, we have God’s providence! This is our final Judeo-Christian heritage, God’s chosen people, Israel and the Christian Church, and the Holy Scripture! Also, this is always a faith issue within the historic reality.
But we must have theology in both the Judeo and Christian sense. But again now, even the Church (as always) is subject to the Scripture Revelation!
Fr. R.
Joel,
Unpacking a verse or verses is itself that biblical science and discipline, we must use not only grammar but history. That is where we also look, but with great caution. As we can see this is a spiritual enterpise. As in the Reformation itself, God was literally preparing the Church, but the main players came to the fore, but again in time…Luther and later Calvin.
At the end of the first century and into the second, leading to the third it was a Patristic effort Polycarp etc., with Irenaeus and Terullian, to Clement and Origen. Then finally to Holy Scripture itself, but always with the pilgrim Church. Then at least in the West, we have our Augustine of Hippo. All long the way, we have God’s providence! This is our final Judeo-Christian heritage, God’s chosen people, Israel and the Christian Church, and the Holy Scripture! Also, this is always a faith issue within the historic reality.
But we must have theology in both the Judeo and Christian sense. But again now, even the Church (as always) is subject to the Scripture Revelation!
Fr. R.
David Bernard Elected UPCI General Superintendent | The Church of … http://bit.ly/3unyMM
David Bernard Elected UPCI General Superintendent | The Church of …: Reports coming from the United Pentecost.. http://bit.ly/1lKZRa
I Think the issue is not of doctrine as both share the basic fundamental truths, the issue is can Pastor Bernard transcend walls, and boundaries and connect with those who think differently and believe differently? This takes an apostolic apostle, and one who has vision for a present generation and not just the upci.
Paul,
From my experience, I am not sure Bernard is qualified to connect with those who think differently. Perhaps not to his discredit, but to those who come close to idolizing the only real theologian the oneness pentecostal movement has.
Joel,
Is Bernard that theologian.. or do you speak of Jason Dulle?
Fr. R.
I mean Bernard. David has written a few books.
http://www.newlifeupc.org/wp-content/uploads/online-books/oneness/One-Top.html
He, and not French, seems to be the prevailing view.
Whatever else can be said, by theological and historical definition, this oneness work is certainly Modalist, Sabellianism…etc. This can and has lead some to the Unitarian doctrine. If we study Unitarianism, they believe that God alone is One, and thus with this logic alone begun, they arrive that God cannot become flesh-enfleshed. Here the very nature of modalism (God just in a mode) can also be seen as a real weakness from the position itself.
Fr. R.
Please define for us what is an “apostolic apostle”? We had only 12 of those in reality, besides the apostolic delegates (and all in the first century).
Fr. R.
I Think the issue is not of doctrine as both share the basic fundamental truths, the issue is can Pastor Bernard transcend walls, and boundaries and connect with those who think differently and believe differently? This takes an apostolic apostle, and one who has vision for a present generation and not just the upci.
Paul,
From my experience, I am not sure Bernard is qualified to connect with those who think differently. Perhaps not to his discredit, but to those who come close to idolizing the only real theologian the oneness pentecostal movement has.
Joel,
Is Bernard that theologian.. or do you speak of Jason Dulle?
Fr. R.
I mean Bernard. David has written a few books.
http://www.newlifeupc.org/wp-content/uploads/online-books/oneness/One-Top.html
He, and not French, seems to be the prevailing view.
Whatever else can be said, by theological and historical definition, this oneness work is certainly Modalist, Sabellianism…etc. This can and has lead some to the Unitarian doctrine. If we study Unitarianism, they believe that God alone is One, and thus with this logic alone begun, they arrive that God cannot become flesh-enfleshed. Here the very nature of modalism (God just in a mode) can also be seen as a real weakness from the position itself.
Fr. R.
Please define for us what is an “apostolic apostle”? We had only 12 of those in reality, besides the apostolic delegates (and all in the first century).
Fr. R.